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Regarding this clip you've uploaded: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZdRndmyEGgXoinB46
After replacing both pins, both variators were fixed (no free play) when belt removed?

Did you fix it after or before replacing oil pump?
Intake side variator got new locking pin, after that no more free play than exhaust side.
The locking pin spring is harder then before because one thread is broken and I lengthened it a bit.

Next step was the oil pump replaced.
 

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Intake side variator got new locking pin, after that no more free play than exhaust side.
The locking pin spring is harder then before because one thread is broken and I lengthened it a bit.

Next step was the oil pump replaced.
Well I'm having the exact same problem. Intake variator was taken apart and the locking spring is broken. Ordered a new variator thru Alfa Romeo Ersatzteile - Italia Ricambi, around 200 Euro.
Will update once installed.
 

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Sounds like Alfa might be uising the same supplier for variators as they did with the old twin sparks.

Might be a good idea to change them every belt change like on those?
 

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I can't use reply buttons on the site at this time:-(

@Erez159! I can't waiting...

@symon! Too expensive, both them about EUR400 plus belt and other necessary parts...
And not totally sure these cause the rattle noise

So I ordered too an suction side and we'll see!
 

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Hi!

I changed the intake side variator, rattle noise at startup has gone...

Happy me :blabla:
I have 159 1.9jts 2009 with 64k km and have the same rattle noise at startup but not always,1 or 2 times every 2-3 months.Is this the same issue ? i mean the issue with the variators and if yes is it necessary to change timing chain kit+ variators or only the variators ? because the whole thing is about 1000 euros.
 

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I have 159 1.9jts 2009 with 64k km and have the same rattle noise at startup but not always,1 or 2 times every 2-3 months.Is this the same issue ? i mean the issue with the variators and if yes is it necessary to change timing chain kit+ variators or only the variators ? because the whole thing is about 1000 euros.
JTS engine have same system for timing modifications. I don't replaced the belt and others because it changed sort time ago.
Your engine have chain, that more expensive. I think change is necessary when it changed long time ago, otherwise not.
Check the service manual the replace interval instructions. If chain and accessories have good shape, not necessary to replace these, only just variator(s).

Sorry for my english :-(
 

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JTS engine have same system for timing modifications. I don't replaced the belt and others because it changed sort time ago.
Your engine have chain, that more expensive. I think change is necessary when it changed long time ago, otherwise not.
Check the service manual the replace interval instructions. If chain and accessories have good shape, not necessary to replace these, only just variator(s).

Sorry for my english :-(
Yes my engine has chain its supposed to last the life of the car it dont need replacement as a service schedule like timing chain.
If i have the same problem with the variators the solution is to replace them as it seems.

Part number for variators for my engine are 71 739 677 & 71 753 047 ,are these the same for 1750 tbi ???maybe there is updated part number for these variators so in the future dont need replacement again ??

If the variators needs replacing after 50k-60k km then the reliability of the timing chain has failed because every time u replace them ,u replace timing chain kit also for obvious reasons lol.
 

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No the 1.9/2.2 JTS variators are GM. Tbi are AR. That sound is definitely coming from the variator. Had this on a 1.8 (F4P engine) Laguna II. Firs it was for about 3s after startup than it became permanent. The locking pin get's damaged more and more and it can't stay in place when on idle. So it rattles. And the second problem are the seals between the oil chambers inside the variator wearing out and leaking oil back. So no pressure. The JTS variators are different. They are spring loaded working against the oil pressure (so called continuous VVT not just two positions on/off) don't know if there is any pin at all. Quite durable solution. And simple.
 

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Yes, I repaired the locking pin which was not enough, after that the second problem still present, oil leaking through sealing inside the variator.
The TBi variator is working continuously too like a standard (Toyota) VVT or 1.9/2.2 JTS, have not just two state, both type are have spring for travelling to zero (locking) position after oil pressure ended. This drawing out the oil from chambers.

Have a look this:

Link
 

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Yes my engine has chain its supposed to last the life of the car it dont need replacement as a service schedule like timing chain.
If i have the same problem with the variators the solution is to replace them as it seems.

Part number for variators for my engine are 71 739 677 & 71 753 047 ,are these the same for 1750 tbi ???maybe there is updated part number for these variators so in the future dont need replacement again ??

If the variators needs replacing after 50k-60k km then the reliability of the timing chain has failed because every time u replace them ,u replace timing chain kit also for obvious reasons lol.
TBi variators type is different than JTS, but the working method is same.

Replacing the chain is not necessarily needed if these have good working orders,
but the car repair fees is more expensive than parts price, I would think twice ...
 

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TBi variators type is different than JTS, but the working method is same.

Replacing the chain is not necessarily needed if these have good working orders,
but the car repair fees is more expensive than parts price, I would think twice ...
The whole thing timing chain kit +variators (both of them)=1.000 euros.The thing is that if the problem is indeed with the variators u replace the timing chain kit also,its kind of when u replace water pump every time u replace timing belt,water pump maybe not need of replacing but u replace it anyway for preventive reasons.

Timing chain kit around 300 euros
Variator 1 around 200 euros
variator 2 around 300 euros
mechanic payment around 250 euros

I dont care about the money and if i have problem i will fix it but if it has to be replaced every 50k-60k km then it is a problem lol.Dont thinking about selling the car for many reasons.
 

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I don't think you have to change the variators every 40-50k km like Alfa TS engines, but it also has an impact on the chain's lifespan too.
 

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I don't think you have to change the variators every 40-50k km like Alfa TS engines, but it also has an impact on the chain's lifespan too.
I dont have check engine light and that noise is not every day noise,its 1-2 times every 3 months therefore i am thinking if leaving it , if its getting worse and worse then i will replace timing chain kit +variators.Anyway i dont really know if its 100 % variators but it seems to be.
So i am leaving it for now and if its getting worse then i will fix it what is your opinion about that ?


In the meantime checking the whole internet for similar problems (with variators) its seems that some TSI engines had this problem few years ago (dont know if they solved it) also some honda and some toyota engines (rav4) LOL.
 

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I dont have check engine light and that noise is not every day noise,its 1-2 times every 3 months therefore i am thinking if leaving it , if its getting worse and worse then i will replace timing chain kit +variators.Anyway i dont really know if its 100 % variators but it seems to be.
So i am leaving it for now and if its getting worse then i will fix it what is your opinion about that ?


In the meantime checking the whole internet for similar problems (with variators) its seems that some TSI engines had this problem few years ago (dont know if they solved it) also some honda and some toyota engines (rav4) LOL.
I think you do not touch it at now.
 

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It is interesting, that I have 100 k miles on the clock with the original chain and the only part broke was an exhaust solenoid. Changed both. And it is a 2007 engine so even the tensioner is of the first generation (flat head not with the bump). Not even using Selenia and changing it every 9000 miles. It's a riddle for me.
 

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I have a similar symptom on the 2015 Alfa Giulietta QV.

I got the diesel or rattle noise on startup for a while, it was intermittent. No engine light. But mine was always accompanied by the car starting but would struggle to idle and then with the blip of the throttle and it would idle correctly but also sporadically..never settling. Now recently the Engine light on, car is in limp mode. Error code is P0017, camshaft or crankshaft sensor.

I removed all the camshaft and cam variator valve and cleaned these, removed the engine error light and the car started properly and drove fine for 5 mins, and the error returned and car went into limp mode again. I"m going to clean the crankshaft sensor today and give feedback, else its start by buying sensors. I hope its not variators as you experienced.
 

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Update, my car's timing was out. Belts, idlers etc are all fine. Why was it out by a few degrees? The belt was removed and timing set and the rattling noise came back in a matter of days. We are now going to swop out the entire belt kit and variators...
 

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Hi all. Two weeks ago, I also had the check engine light, and I heard the diesel ratter when reving. Turned the engine off and on again, and everything seemed fine, so I didn't bother any more. Yesterday I had the check engine light again, but the engine ran smooth though. Turned off and on again, but the engine light was still there. I disconnected the battery and reconnected it, and the engine fired up like nothing happened. I will check the error codes later today.

The belt change is already planned for next week, so I will try to not use the car until then. I also will have to make the valve gasket joints, since oil is leaking into the spark plug wells. Maybe it comes from this. The car has approx. 50000 miles (80000km).

EDIT:
MES found following error: P0340 - Timing Sensor (exhaust). The code is set the when the Camshaft Positions Sensor signal is missing.
 
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