[Gertie]

Hi guys!!!
Sorry but I forgot to ask a thing about this transformation...
1750tbi or 20vt Fiat conversion in both cases we are talking about a petrol engine with much higher rpm..

Compared to the gears of the jtd gearbox... How bad would be driving this set up? I mean super extra long gears...

The owner of the GT in the video with the 1750 did it change the internal of the gearbox?

Yes it has super long gears, but turbo torque makes things better. 4th gear on the Jtd is similar to the 2.5 6th gear. So in essence you get a decent 4 speed box with 2 overdrive gears.

 

[Performatechnik]

Suspension

Hi Acab, i'm doing the same conversion but on a 156 saloon, can you tell me what suspension did you use for the rear? I wanted kw v3 or simillar, but they all state not compatible.
Regards
David

 

[acab]

Hi Acab, i'm doing the same conversion but on a 156 saloon, can you tell me what suspension did you use for the rear? I wanted kw v3 or simillar, but they all state not compatible.
Regards
David

Hello

I use Fiat Stilo 2.4 Abarth front shock absorbers and custom springs

 

[acab]

Finally i got working ABS\ASR\VDC from crosswagon with TBi ECU.

 

[typos1]

Cool:rotate:

 

[NicoR]

Nice!

What are the chances of using that to obtain RWD only? Is there a way to bypass the front diff? I seem to remember something similar being done with other AWD systems to obtain RWD.

 

[Gertie]

The transfer portion of the gearbox is not strong enough to send 100% of the power to the rear. You will break that portion.

To get a proper RWD, you will have to turn the motor 90 degrees with all the problems in cooling and breathing it intail. Nothing is impossible with enough money and perseverance.

Go for it!

 

[NicoR]

If the problem is the transfer case, wouldn't it be possible to address that? And what would be the problems with cooling and breathing if turning the engine?

 

[typos1]

Theres a discussion about hits not really possible in one of the 14/156/GT 4wd threads.

 

[Gertie]

If the problem is the transfer case, wouldn't it be possible to address that? And what would be the problems with cooling and breathing if turning the engine?

Like I said, with enough time, energy and money you can get the transfer rebuilt for your application. Simple mods to the OEM case won't work.

Repositioning a motor effects all the plumbing hoses: radiator, air intake, power steering. It needs bespoke engine mounts and different sump as the baffling and oil pickup is designed for certain gas forces in certain directions.

 

[NicoR]

Like I said, with enough time, energy and money you can get the transfer rebuilt for your application. Simple mods to the OEM case won't work.

Repositioning a motor effects all the plumbing hoses: radiator, air intake, power steering. It needs bespoke engine mounts and different sump as the baffling and oil pickup is designed for certain gas forces in certain directions.

So none of the applicable engines was ever used in a longitudinal position in another car? Bussos have been used in longitudinal. But it seems a Busso Q4 has it's own set of problems.

 

[typos1]

Its using the Busso in a car thats designed for transverse engines that the problem.

 

[NicoR]

Its using the Busso in a car thats designed for transverse engines that the problem.

So are we talking about the same problems we have with turning the TS around? Or extra problems with the Busso?

 

[Gertie]

So are we talking about the same problems we have with turning the TS around? Or extra problems with the Busso?

We are diluting the original discussion of this thread.

If an engine (any engine) is designed to be used transverse, it should stay that way unless you put some effort into the sump and oil pick up.

A busso motor does not mount to the Q4 gearbox / system anyway, so no need to discuss the busso in this thread.

If you would like to build a RWD GT, etc. please start a thread to that extent and we can discuss it to hearts content.

 

[NicoR]

We are diluting the original discussion of this thread.

If an engine (any engine) is designed to be used transverse, it should stay that way unless you put some effort into the sump and oil pick up.

A busso motor does not mount to the Q4 gearbox / system anyway, so no need to discuss the busso in this thread.

If you would like to build a RWD GT, etc. please start a thread to that extent and we can discuss it to hearts content.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail. It's just that this is the first time I see an actual converted car. Saw many threads but nobody who ever actually did it as Acab. So I thought it would be a good place to get facts from somebody who did it.

A for a Busso Q4, the 164 Q4 had a Busso tranverse. So there has been a Busso mounted to a Q4 gearbox before.

 

[Gertie]

It is true what you say Nico, the 164 indeed had a Q4 mated to a V6. It is a different system, using a viscous central coupler and torsen rear diff, open diff front. 164 Q4 was V6 only.

The 155 Q4 has the Lancia Delta Integrale motor and driveline, it was fitted to the Lancia (Lamperdi) 2.0 4 cylinder motor. It is closer to the 164 system with viscous center coupler and torsen rear, but not exactly the same.

The 156 Q4 has a torsen center diff and open diffs front and rear, fitted to the Alfa Jtdm motor, the block is basically the same as the 2.0TS and the 1750 tbi.

The Brera / 159 Q4 has a similar setup as the 156 in the sense of torsen center and open diffs front and rear. It was fitted to the GM based V6 motor and its driveline dimensions differ.

The 156, 147 and GT are built on the same platform, that is why this conversion is 95% bolt in and 5% fabrication (adapted from opening comment).

 

[NicoR]

So if one would be lucky enough to find the very rare 164 Q4 in a junkyard somewhere, it would be possible to use the parts for a Busso based GT or 916 Q4?

 

[Pud237]

So if one would be lucky enough to find the very rare 164 Q4 in a junkyard somewhere, it would be possible to use the parts for a Busso based GT or 916 Q4?

Apart from the 164 is a completely different car to the 156/147/GT, so while the gearbox & 4wd system would bolt to the engine, it wouldn't bolt to the body of the car. So you'd be in for a hell of a lot of fabrication.

 

[NicoR]

OK. Fair enough. So lets take the thread back to topic.

So the TwinSpark 2.0 and the 1750 would fit, right?

The bias in the Q4 system here seems to be 60% rear, 40% front or 55-45, depending on where you take the info from. I'm guessing this is not computer controlled, given the Crosswagon's age? And I'm guessing this is fixed and not variable as with electronic systems. So is there a way to increase the bias towards the rear with a mod?

Also, the Crosswagon seems to have a higher ride height. In the videos I have the impression Acab's GT has a higher stance. Is this because of some clearance needs with the Q4 system? It can't be lowered?

 

[typos1]

According to the 156 Crosswagon and 156 Sportwagon Q4 brochures, the torque split is 58/42, the diffs can apportion up to 80% of the power to one axle using (mechanical) torsen diffs (although this is nothing to do with the cars age - electronically controlled torque apportioning has been available since the 80s). Acab fitted the Q4 drivetrain to a 1750 engine from the 159/Brera (the Giulietta/4C blocks wont fit), the rear suspension is different on Q4 156s and there are no lowering springs available you could get some custom made, most of your questions are already answered in the thread or the other threads about this.