[mirlock]

Hi All

Has anyone done a 4 wheel drive conversion from the Q4 to a none Q4 156.

Reason why i ask is , as i have to change some of the floor pan i thought that maybe thinking ahead to weld in part of a Q4 floor so i have prop-shaft room for a maybe future project when im done with the present project.

so i guess i need to know is the Q4 engine the same as the 156-166 v6's and would the gearbox/transfer box fit the 156-166 manual v6 Engine.

Ive not ever seen a Q4 so i dont know the layout of the running gear so will the engine need remounting.

If its a whole lot of grief i will just carry on and not bother finding a Q4 floor.

All is just a thought on how to combat traction as engine power increases

 

[David C]

The Q4 was a 1.9 Diesel.

 

[_The_Editor_]

The Q4 was a 1.9 Diesel.

Don't all the 1.9 JTD's and the V6's share the same gearbox/bellhousing (minus the gear ratios), or was that just the GT/147 flavors?

 

[mirlock]

The Q4 was a 1.9 Diesel.

Ah righto.. Was there a 4 wheel drive v6 ? i thought there was something called a crosswagon or something i thought i read something when i was looking for info on my car.

 

[lizard]

Yes, it was a 156 Crosswagon that had Q4 and 1.9 JTD. The only Q4 with busso V6 was 164 Q4, but that system is of course unrelated to the Q4 on Crosswagon.

 

[SanRemo78]

I didn't think the 156 Sportwagon Q4/Crosswagon Q4 weren't available in the UK?

The only Q4's I know of are the 159 (3.2 petrol or 2.4 diesel) Saloon or Sportwagon plays Brera & Spider variants.

 

[mirlock]

Found a thread on the idea and it seems the exhaust only needs to be moved over for the drive shaft to fit so no need for a bigger tunnel.

but it seems it is possible but for now i won't bother looking it up further and just carry on with welding a standard floor pan in . and just dream of 4x4 :thumbup:

 

[Gertie]

Yes, it was a 156 Crosswagon that had Q4 and 1.9 JTD. The only Q4 with busso V6 was 164 Q4, but that system is of course unrelated to the Q4 on Crosswagon.

How much different is the visco matic of the 164 to the torsen? base of the 156

So one could hypothetically mate the 164 Q4 system to the 156 V6, no?

The 1.9 Q4 could be mated to a 2.0TS...

 

[typos1]

Found a thread on the idea and it seems the exhaust only needs to be moved over for the drive shaft to fit so no need for a bigger tunnel.

but it seems it is possible but for now i won't bother looking it up further and just carry on with welding a standard floor pan in . and just dream of 4x4 :thumbup:

Yeah, its been discussed before - it would be a pretty easy conversion as the JTD and V6 have the same gear box so all youd need to do would be to swap the ratios.

The front and centre diffs are both in the gearbox on 156 Q4s, the rear suspension from what I can gather is the same, with a different sub frame due to the rear diff, however aftermarket springs always state "not for Q4 versions" so I used to think that the rear suspension was different, but I saw some pics recently that suggest its actually the same, I think they suggest this because the rear diff and/or exhaust hang lower and therefore lowering springs would result in diff and exhaust easily striking the ground (even the Sportwagon Q4 (the non off road version) had pretty high ride height), so a Q4 conversion might result in a very high rear end, unless the subframe could be redesigned to make the diff sit higher or the exhaust be redesigned so it hangs lower (4 small pipes, 2 either side of the prop maybe ?), or both.

Unfortunately the Q4 set up adds 150kg to the weight a carbon fibre prop shaft would help reduce that weight, although it might cost a fair bit.

So, apart from changing the gear ratios it would pretty much be plug & play, but heavy and your a*se would be waving in the air ! Keep an eye out for Q4 parts on Euro ebay sites (I ve seen a few in the past).

Don't all the 1.9 JTD's and the V6's share the same gearbox/bellhousing (minus the gear ratios), or was that just the GT/147 flavors?

Youre right, gearboxes are the same.

I didn't think the 156 Sportwagon Q4/Crosswagon Q4 weren't available in the UK?

The only Q4's I know of are the 159 (3.2 petrol or 2.4 diesel) Saloon or Sportwagon plays Brera & Spider variants.

Yep, 156 Q4 not available in the UK, but nothing stopping someone importing one or buying the parts !

The 156 Q4 used the same 4WD system as the 159, but I dont know how easy ot would be to use bits from a 159.

 

[mirlock]

Thanks Typos1

Thats a nice bit information and great of you to spend the time typing it all .
It has given me food for thought and since all i have is time on my hands i will keep an eye out for parts or even just get a donor car at some point.

will be interesting as ive taken a few cars from 4wd to 2wd but nver 2wd to 4wd :biglaugh:

Thanks again

 

[Chris155]

IIRC, there's a fundamental clearance issue at the back of the engine / subframe that prevents the q4 system being used with the V6.

 

[Chris155]

Looking at the pics Typos posted I suspect it has something to do with the block / oil filter housing / drive gear to the prop shaft.

 

[Pud237]

V6 & diesels use the same family of gearboxes but the bell housings are different, you can't bolt a complete diesel gearbox to a V6 engine or vice versa. So if you wanted to fit the Q4 bits to a V6 you'd need to put V6 bell-housing & gearbox internals into the Q4 gearbox casing with Q4 transfer box bits all hanging off the back. It'd all need re-shimming and then also I wonder if the transfer box's drive gear will engage with the different crownwheel tooth-count on the V6 diff.

Also as Chris mentioned there is some sort of clearance issue for the transfer box on the back of the V6 engine block, I'm sure I read about someone trying it before on here.

I think it would bolt onto a 1750 TBI engine though - pretty sure they use the same bell-housing bolt pattern as the JTDs. 1750 TBI engine in a 156 with Q4 transmission would be great!

 

[typos1]

IIRC, there's a fundamental clearance issue at the back of the engine / subframe that prevents the q4 system being used with the V6.

V6 & diesels use the same family of gearboxes but the bell housings are different, you can't bolt a complete diesel gearbox to a V6 engine or vice versa. So if you wanted to fit the Q4 bits to a V6 you'd need to put V6 bell-housing & gearbox internals into the Q4 gearbox casing with Q4 transfer box bits all hanging off the back. It'd all need re-shimming and then also I wonder if the transfer box's drive gear will engage with the different crownwheel tooth-count on the V6 diff.

Also as Chris mentioned there is some sort of clearance issue for the transfer box on the back of the V6 engine block, I'm sure I read about someone trying it before on here.

I think it would bolt onto a 1750 TBI engine though - pretty sure they use the same bell-housing bolt pattern as the JTDs. 1750 TBI engine in a 156 with Q4 transmission would be great!

Right, not so good news for mirlock then. But good extra info to add as this has been talked about many times, but never seen it actually done.

A TBi Q4 156 certainly would be interesting, especially if the later all aloy 4C type engine was used.

Always wanted to add the system to my 147 1.9 (with shortened prop of course), should fit fine, just a case of finding the money to do it

 

[Pud237]

No reason why it wouldn't all go in a 147, like you say just shortened prop and probably modified fuel tank required.

1750 TBI has the advantage of being from the same family of engines as the TS & JTDs so is the same length - should mean that Q4 driveshafts are also the correct length, position of the diff relative to the centre point of the chassis is correct and hopefully engine mounts would all fit. Technically it would bolt up to a 2.4 JTD or a 2.0 20v turbo from a Fiat Coupe but as those engines are longer, the diff & transfer box would sit closer to the N/S and might not fit, prop would also have to sit at a different angle too.