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Discussion Starter #1
I’m wondering if anyone knows or can tell me where to find the actual max power figures for the 1750Turbo engine of a Giulietta Veloce in each of its three modes. I know max torque in Natural is a claimed 300Nm and in Dynamic 350Nm but what about the power figures? I know Max power is a claimed 177kW in Dynamic. This is not a purely academic question as the Veloce sits above the 130kW per tonne limit and is banned here in NSW for inexperienced drivers. I hope to seek dispensation for one of my sons to drive it. Either that or move to Canberra.:cheeky:
 

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Hi 147Alfaguy, sorry cant answer your question but i do like the law of cars over a certain power being excluded for novice drivers, here in the UK you can go and but a 600hp Ferrari and drive it as soon as you pass your test, funds allowing of course.

Does the same law apply to modifying cars as well
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi 147Alfaguy, sorry cant answer your question but i do like the law of cars over a certain power being excluded for novice drivers, here in the UK you can go and but a 600hp Ferrari and drive it as soon as you pass your test, funds allowing of course.

Does the same law apply to modifying cars as well
Our laws are State based. You pretty much get free reign in Tasmania and in the Australian Capital Territory (Canberra) which sits inside New South Wales where it’s much more strict along with Victoria, South Australia, WA, and Queensland.
The rule is 130kW per tonne so does include modified cars....You’d have to get someone else local to me with experience of registering modified cars to respond knowledgeably. All I know is police have a habit of defecting highly modified cars usually on the pretext of safety.
 

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The manual I have for my (diesel) Giulietta gives only one figure for max power, but two for torque, for all models. It gives the 1750TBi power as 172.5kW (235 bhp), and torque as 300Nm in Normal and 340Nm in Dynamic. I'd always understood it that Dynamic changes the torque curve but not power output, although I guess it will change how the power is delivered.
 

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For the 1.4 multiair at least, I think you get a 10seconds of the higher torque output in dynamic as overboost at full throttle, for overtaking,ect. Might be the same for the Tbi engine.


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Our laws are State based. You pretty much get free reign in Tasmania and in the Australian Capital Territory (Canberra) which sits inside New South Wales where it’s much more strict along with Victoria, South Australia, WA, and Queensland.
The rule is 130kW per tonne so does include modified cars....You’d have to get someone else local to me with experience of registering modified cars to respond knowledgeably. All I know is police have a habit of defecting highly modified cars usually on the pretext of safety.
We need something like that here, can you not get the car remapped so that it complies with the legislation. I know mapping is normally used to increase power so must be able to be done the other way
 

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The remap would have to credible to the German authorities. Aftermarket wheels and spoilers have to be TUV approved and described on the registration document.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
We need something like that here, can you not get the car remapped so that it complies with the legislation. I know mapping is normally used to increase power so must be able to be done the other way
What I am first trying to determine is if max power in Natural gives less than the 130kW/tonne ban threshold then, if it does, find a way to lock out dynamic. Yes, I had thought of going down that route of a detune but first I’d like to know what figures I’m initially dealing with. I can’t find anything but torque figures for Natural (300Nm) and Dynamic (350Nm) modes. One would think power would also be different.
Then there is the effect of heat soak on performance. I’m betting the 177kW can only be achieved in ideal conditions and that it actually is closer to or even less than 130kW/tonne, in reality.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So Dynamic provides the over-boost down low giving that inflated torque figure but up around red-line all things even out so power in both modes is the same. Is that the correct conclusion? Looks like a bespoke tune might be called for after all. I think further discussion with people further up in our RMS (registration and licensing authority here) than those at the front counter is required. Thanks for the replies.
 

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In the UK these things are, as far as I’m aware, done using the manufacturer’s declared ‘official’ figures. So for road tax purposes, for example, the banding is determined by the official CO2 figures. The alternative is to put each individual car on a rolling road.

Is there nothing in state law/regulations that says where the power-to-weight figure has to come from?
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
In the UK these things are, as far as I’m aware, done using the manufacturer’s declared ‘official’ figures. So for road tax purposes, for example, the banding is determined by the official CO2 figures. The alternative is to put each individual car on a rolling road.

Is there nothing in state law/regulations that says where the power-to-weight figure has to come from?
I have no idea. I am thinking of telling the authorities that my other car is a 4C (which it is) so which of the two would they prefer my son to drive?
The Giulietta isn’t much over the threshold anyway, so maybe trying to convince them that real-world engine performance in hot and humid Sydney has it less than 130kW/tonne, in reality.
 

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My Giulietta manual shows different numbers, perhaps yours is later or for different spec.
172.5 kW and 1.32 tonnes so has power/mass ratio of 130.68 kW/tonne. So close! You need another 6.9kg.

Unladen mass with all fluids and 90% fuel. Without optional equipment.
 

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Always wondered what the differences are on the 2.0 JTDm? Dynamic is totally different power wise, unless its been on a dyno how do we know what modes have what power?
 

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Thanks for the link, I couldn't see that in my handbook ? with the torque been 30 nm does this produce more bhp? P.s im daft!
 

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I think - might be wrong - that more torque gives faster acceleration and more power gives more top end speed. There’s probably a complex link between the two but torque is turning force, so the engine’s ability to turn the gearbox and hence the wheels. Power is the engine’s ability to move a given mass.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/difference-between-torque-and-horsepower.htm
is an interesting read.
 

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I would have though more torque produces more power but I know nothing ha! I've had my car remapped via a custom ECU. It's going to be on a dyno next month. I'll ask to try all 3 modes and see if there is a difference. I can almost certainly feel it.

I cannot find a direct link to more torque = more bhp so should be interesting to see the difference if there is any.
 

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I would have though more torque produces more power but I know nothing ha! I've had my car remapped via a custom ECU. It's going to be on a dyno next month. I'll ask to try all 3 modes and see if there is a difference. I can almost certainly feel it.

I cannot find a direct link to more torque = more bhp so should be interesting to see the difference if there is any.
Its not an easy concept is it?
Ill give you an example which works for me
The 1.4petrol relevant version and 2.0 diesel have both 170hp.
The diesel has masses more torque

In a head to head the petrol prob sneaks it(for varying reasons)
Now, stick 4 adults in each car and do the same race and the diesel will trounce the petrol ?
 
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