Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Before i start i have searched the forum but not found the question that must have been asked a thousand times before?

The wife's 2008 1.6TS 147 has an oil burning issue that i am not prepared to throw money at.

I can get a 2003 2.0 147 with good engine and box and leather trim for £200, no brainer really.
What do i need to swap?
just the engine,
engine and gear box,
engine gearbox drive shafts and hubs
or the whole lot and the ECU and engine loom?

And will the interior fit being a earlier model? i'm thinking airbag compatibility issues?

Thanks in advance boys and girls
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,221 Posts
A few people have put 1.8TS into 1.6TS 147 by simply swapping the engine.
Has the added advantage of looking identical under the bonnet... :wink_org:

A 2.0TS may be too much of a stretch for the 1.6TS ECU map. You are close to Gus at Alfatune in St Helens for advice on that.

Not sure on the airbags. But obviously if you have a 5-door car, you need the interior from a 5-door, if you have a 3-door you need the 3-door interior.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
A few people have put 1.8TS into 1.6TS 147 by simply swapping the engine.
Has the added advantage of looking identical under the bonnet... :wink_org:

A 2.0TS may be too much of a stretch for the 1.6TS ECU map. You are close to Gus at Alfatune in St Helens for advice on that.

Not sure on the airbags. But obviously if you have a 5-door car, you need the interior from a 5-door, if you have a 3-door you need the 3-door interior.
Thanks David, i have seen a 1.8 motor for the same price as the full car, so the 1.8 is just a staright engine swap is it, one out one in may be the easy option.
Yes both cars are 5 door
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,227 Posts
They both are. Id swap the gearbox abd engine as a complete unit. Saves time that way if pushed. The 1.6 will run the 2.0 engine. Might try to lean it out a bit much when running in clised loop on the motorway. But it'll work no problem.

Yoy can keep everything else the same.

The clearence under the sump might be tight for the exhaust. But its easy enough to swap one for the other. Also the 1.8 and 2.0 use longer gear ratios . Well final drive. So its a bit better for motorway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,227 Posts
They both are. Id swap the gearbox abd engine as a complete unit. Saves time that way if pushed. The 1.6 will run the 2.0 engine. Might try to lean it out a bit much when running in clised loop on the motorway. But it'll work no problem.

Yoy can keep everything else the same.

The clearence under the sump might be tight for the exhaust. But its easy enough to swap one for the other. Also the 1.8 and 2.0 use longer gear ratios . Well final drive. So its a bit better for motorway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
They both are. Id swap the gearbox abd engine as a complete unit. Saves time that way if pushed. The 1.6 will run the 2.0 engine. Might try to lean it out a bit much when running in clised loop on the motorway. But it'll work no problem.

Yoy can keep everything else the same.

The clearence under the sump might be tight for the exhaust. But its easy enough to swap one for the other. Also the 1.8 and 2.0 use longer gear ratios . Well final drive. So its a bit better for motorway.
Thanks Scotty, now i don't know what to do just throw the 1.8 engine in or get the full car and swap the engine, box and interior for the same money. Suppose the full car is the one to go for as i'll get a load of spares and 30 quid off the scrap man for the shell.

When you say clearance under the sump will be tight do you mean swap the sump or the downpipe?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,227 Posts
Swap the down pipe from the 2.0. Your original 1.6 one might clear it. But it might be tight.

The 2.0 has a larger depth sump to cater for the extra long stroke that the pistons and rods have to make up the extra 100cc per pot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Ok slight change in direction from the engine swap, i hate letting things beat me.
Background,
The engine has always intermittently blown a decent amount of oil smoke, usually when topped up to the max level, seems to be ok when on min level.
Head gasket failed on cylinder 4 so stripped down and de-coked the head that was in a right state and replaced the stem seals about 3 months ago, ran perfect stopped the misfire error in cylinder 4 but still smoked and used 1 litre of oil every 500 mles, last week it started to constantly blow plooms of oil smoke and went through 2 litres of oil in 100 miles.

Before i order this 1.8 engine i've done some checks
Compression 200psi across all cylinders, bottom end and valve seats must be good
Both breather pipes to inlet all clear
There is oil in the inlet pipe post MAF accumulating on the lip of the TB, appears to be coming from breather. Its as if its sucking its own oil through the breather.
Is there a crankcase breather i haven't seen?

Ideas please
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Ok, possibly found the cause, removed the valve cover and the square part of the gasket that seals what looks to be an internal breather is split, this is assume is sucking oil from the cam bath into the inlet trough the breather pipe?????????????
New gasket on order and lets see what happens, thoughts and ideas still welcome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,338 Posts
Both breather pipes to inlet all clear
There is oil in the inlet pipe post MAF accumulating on the lip of the TB, appears to be coming from breather. Its as if its sucking its own oil through the breather.
Is there a crankcase breather i haven't seen?

Ideas please

there are two ... look here linky ...

One comes from the end of the cover and goes to the intake pipe before the TB .. that's te one that gums it up .. BUT don't be tempted to open it by hand to clean it or you risk breaking the idle actuator on the side ..

The other come from the back of the cam cover and joins to the inlet "box" and at the end is a valve .. this can get stuck (or lost during an engine rebuild!).


The visible one works at higher speed, the one with the valve at lower revs!


Your TB will be different as you will have a fly-by-wire throttle and not the earlier, and simpler, throttle cable operated TB.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Update,
New valve cover gasket, replaced Variator soleniod o'ring, cleaned TB and all intake pipes and breathers.
Still smoking like steam train from the exhaust.
IMAG0168.jpg
This is just at tickover, rev it and it fills the street with smoke!

I Noticed oil drips from the downpipe so took the manifold off, the studs are wet with oil but so are the exhaust ports in the head so 2 things come to mind.
Can oil from leaking studs track back up the exhaust ports?
If the engine is at fault, then shouldn't the oil be burnt on the combustion cycle and not come out the exhaust ports as wet oil?

Would really appreciate any advise before i spend more money or possibly put the car on e-bay
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,227 Posts
That's alot of smoke. That's not just from breather pipes.
On the plus side I do have a 1.8 engine available since my car failed MOT on rust.

If its burning a lot of oil from blow back from blocked breathers then getting new ones or cleaning will help. But that on tick over on a clear warm ish day looks a bit more suspect.

Compression is good though. So maybe you are getting a lot of crank case pressure and its being forced though the breathers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
On the plus side I do have a 1.8 engine available since my car failed MOT on rust.
I may have a car available for you to put your engine in!:biglaugh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,227 Posts
Let me know.I hope you get it fixed without resorting to engine transplants. But if its going through that much oil its worrying.
Check all the breathers!
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
46,342 Posts
The exhaust manifold studs tap into oilways in the head and can leak. A thin smear of thread lock on the studs can help here.

I wonder if oil which is meant to feed the variator solenoid (it flows up through the head and into the inlet manifold) can be sucked past the inlet manifold gasket and into either cylinder 1 or 2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Well just to put this one to bed, it's all sorted and a lesson learned......good compression means nothing when it comes to burning oil.

After having the head off 3 times, replacing the stem seals twice, 1 head skim, new inlet gasket, sealing exhaust manifold studs that were leaking oil, carrying out 4 compression tests, dry, wet and cold, warm and getting even readings between 210psi and 220psi i pulled the bottom end apart and changed the rings and bearings.
Now i have a 100% smoke free non oil guzzling 1.6 ts that feels better than it ever has. Done 1500 miles and the oil is still bang on the max.

If you have an oil guzzler and know one end of a spanner from the other i would suggest spending the £200 on parts and devoting a weekend to rebuilding the engine as i have done, with the price of decent oil you will save yourself a fortune in the first 12 months !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Thank you.Did you "glaze bust" in any way for the rings to bed into?
I did remove the glaze but after talking to Ned at Autolusso he warned me to go very easy with the honer and lubricate with brake fluid, i literally just took the glaze off then wiped down with a medium soft abrasive pad.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top