[pezzodicento]

Hi all,

I have read many threads on the Giulietta suspension set up, and know about various setups, possible upgrades, and also about possible damper fails.

I have a 12/2011 Giulietta 1.4TB MA, with a Sport Pack II in Germany. (I think veloce in UK?), It's the Sport pack which comes with 18" Turbine wheels, & full leather, so it has stiffer springs.

The car generally shifts left or right when I drive over bumps, and I heard/read that this is quite normal. (One of my trackrod ends are bad, so I'm not sure if this will make that worse?)

When I floor it, the front nose does raise quite a bit. I don't really notice so much roll on corners though, but then I don't drive hard on twisties much.

I know this is a subjective question, but does that generally sound normal?

And is there any telltale sign that my rear shocks are gone?

I will be taking to the workshop in the next weeks, but am after some advice before then.

Any advice appreciated!

Cheers,

Ben

 

[Cuore_Sportivo_155]

worn track rod end will haver a significant effect on the direction the car goes while acellerating vs decellerating.

the shifting left/right over bumps depends on the tracking aswell. Wheels are usually set up with some toe, and the other side cancels this out resulting in going straigth. When you go over a bump, the effect of the weight shift (force of the suspension on each wheel) changes and the net resuslot is one side's toe setting has more effect than the other. Also, toe changes when the suspension height changes, adding to or distracting from the effect.

the shocks have very litle or no effect on the suspension height during either corenering or acellerating/braking.

I fitted QV rear springs on mine, which has much harder springs than the veloce/sportpack, I wasn't happy zith those springs under braking specifically: the rear rose too much and the back end started wandering as if it wanted to overtake the front. that effect is totally gone now. Also, my car sat very visibly higher at the back, that also is now gone and the car sits level

 

[pezzodicento]

worn track rod end will haver a significant effect on the direction the car goes while acellerating vs decellerating.

the shifting left/right over bumps depends on the tracking aswell. Wheels are usually set up with some toe, and the other side cancels this out resulting in going straigth. When you go over a bump, the effect of the weight shift (force of the suspension on each wheel) changes and the net resuslot is one side's toe setting has more effect than the other. Also, toe changes when the suspension height changes, adding to or distracting from the effect.

the shocks have very litle or no effect on the suspension height during either corenering or acellerating/braking.

I fitted QV rear springs on mine, which has much harder springs than the veloce/sportpack, I wasn't happy zith those springs under braking specifically: the rear rose too much and the back end started wandering as if it wanted to overtake the front. that effect is totally gone now. Also, my car sat very visibly higher at the back, that also is now gone and the car sits level

Thanks Cuore_Sportivo_155. Very insightful!

That was exactly the type of advice I was looking for!

Of course, now it makes sense that the car wouldn't pitch/dive due to the shocks, but to the springs.

One question: You just changed the rear QV Springs, and left the original springs ones on front, and all the original shocks? And that's fine? (And also much easier to do, I hear).

Cheers,

Ben

 

[Cuore_Sportivo_155]

Yes all the rest is original (but I have a complete QV setup). But mine is a diesel TCT which will have stronger springs than an MA. My car had the dynamic chassis aswell (or veloce/sport pack).

The rear QV springs are about 30% stronger than the veloce, going by the unloaded length vs loaded. I used the sportpack top mount rubbers, they are thinner and of a different material than the QV topmounts

 

[westonprawn]

Hi so will the standard QV rears fit other engine sizes? (Mines 2011 1.6) but also lower it slightly?
Cheers, Justin

 

[Cuore_Sportivo_155]

yes they fit, and they'll lower it about 10-15mm.

the behaviour of the car becomes much more neutral, I can go from understeer to oversteer and vice versa using just the throttle.

 

[westonprawn]

yes they fit, and they'll lower it about 10-15mm.

the behaviour of the car becomes much more neutral, I can go from understeer to oversteer and vice versa using just the throttle.

Perfect thanks, I like the idea of lowering the back only as the front is ok for me... but will still look standard (black spring etc)
Just to confirm I can just change the back and all will be good? I'm guessing so as the rear does look higher... don't suppose you have the part number please? Thanks again

 

[pezzodicento]

Perfect thanks, I like the idea of lowering the back only as the front is ok for me... but will still look standard (black spring etc)
Just to confirm I can just change the back and all will be good? I'm guessing so as the rear does look higher... don't suppose you have the part number please? Thanks again

I am considering only the rear as well, especially as it seems like less work to replace them than doing the whole lot.

I looked on ePer earlier today and got the Part number for the rear springs for the QV: 50518812. (2010-2013 model)

I would double check in ePer though.

Does anyone know how much time just the rears take to fit if it was done by a garage?

Cheers,

Ben

 

[ransoman]

How many miles/KM's has the car done?

It could be the strut top mounts as these can wear and cause very odd handling.

 

[pezzodicento]

How many miles/KM's has the car done?

It could be the strut top mounts as these can wear and cause very odd handling.

Thanks for the info Ransoman. The car's done 77,000km /48k miles.

I just saw the thread in which you wrote about the issue with yours.

How many miles had you done before changing? And is it possible to visually check them easily?

Cheers,

Ben

 

[westonprawn]

Perfect thanks, I like the idea of lowering the back only as the front is ok for me... but will still look standard (black spring etc)
Just to confirm I can just change the back and all will be good? I'm guessing so as the rear does look higher... don't suppose you have the part number please? Thanks again

I am considering only the rear as well, especially as it seems like less work to replace them than doing the whole lot.

I looked on ePer earlier today and got the Part number for the rear springs for the QV: 50518812. (2010-2013 model)

I would double check in ePer though.

Does anyone know how much time just the rears take to fit if it was done by a garage?

Cheers,

Ben

Thanks Ben, time wise for a garage I wouldn't have thought more than an 1 hour ish for both sides..

Cheers, Justin

 

[pezzodicento]

Thanks Ben, time wise for a garage I wouldn't have thought more than an 1 hour ish for both sides..

Cheers, Justin

Thanks for the info Justin!

 

[ransoman]

Thanks for the info Ransoman. The car's done 77,000km /48k miles.

I just saw the thread in which you wrote about the issue with yours.

How many miles had you done before changing? And is it possible to visually check them easily?

Cheers,

Ben

I think I was just turning 50'000 miles before I replaced mine. sadly no way to check visually. The only way I knew for sure they had failed was when I completely removed them from the car/strut and moved the bearing in my hand and it was rough.

on car and driving for a week I would notice my ride and handling would degrade very rapidly and then I would feel a looseness when rocking the top of the road wheel. Then I would raise the corner and the looseness would go away. When lowering the corner again the looseness would not return and my ride and handling would be smooth again but would deteriorate within a few days again.

It was a complete pain in the ass to diagnose but was happy when I finally sorted it. Then the clutch started screaming again so I got rid of the car.

 

[MrMin]

Interesting viewpoint of shocks not affecting pitching, I have a different view point.
Worn shock absorbers allow the suspension to move more rapidly and the resistance to movement adds to the effective spring rate.
I could clearly feel the degradation present on a 2011 car versus 2015 car due to the shock absorbers. When your at the dealer borrow the loan car for a spin around the block, they are quite relaxed at Neuenhofstrasse about test drives.

Mine has done around 70,000 km and I can see/feel the fine damping is degraded. People in the industry tell me this is normal mileage for most cars.

When I decide to replace mine, I'll probably go new shock absorbers all around and the front strut top mounts/bearings as these are easy to replace and can really odd effects when failing.

 

[Argo]

Interesting viewpoint of shocks not affecting pitching, I have a different view point.

I have to say I agree. There's no question that fitting B6s to my 1.6 made a dramatic improvement in the ability to make very fast direction changes without upsetting the car.

It wont stop pitching completely (as you've said, dampers can only improve on fast changes rather than slow ones) but it was nevertheless improved.

Also can't help but think that fitting stronger springs on the rear, without a damper upgrade, are going to make it really difficult to keep the tyres in contact with the tarmac on anything but perfect surface as it's bad enough on the standard set-up!

 

[symon]

When I changed the shocks on my car they had done 62,000 miles and were completely shot. Just changing them alone for Bilstein B4 made a huge improvement.

The front top mounts were fine, but as the car was apart I changed them anyway.

Then after a few weeks I changed the springs to Eibach pro-kit. The car is the best it has ever been and I am pretty happy with it.

So IMO, a good choice would be the Eibach Pro kit and either the B4's or B6's, then getting a full wheel alignment. It should then ride and handle much better than standard.

 

[Cuore_Sportivo_155]

I have to say I agree. There's no question that fitting B6s to my 1.6 made a dramatic improvement in the ability to make very fast direction changes without upsetting the car.

It wont stop pitching completely (as you've said, dampers can only improve on fast changes rather than slow ones) but it was nevertheless improved.

Also can't help but think that fitting stronger springs on the rear, without a damper upgrade, are going to make it really difficult to keep the tyres in contact with the tarmac on anything but perfect surface as it's bad enough on the standard set-up!

the Lusso dampers are softer then the veloce dampers I feel the veloce is over dampened, esp since the veloce doesn't necessarily gets a higher rated spring!

 

[pezzodicento]

Thanks for all your advice, some very useful input and opinions there!

I finally got authorisation from the dealer that I bought the car from- to get a few things repaired locally, including the trackrod end.

I think I will try to get another G as a courtesy car when my car's in, and as a start, try to compare, and maybe get my tracking looked at as well. (Main dealer wants 100 euros for this though!)

BTW are trackrod ends like tyres? Is it best to do the other side at the same time?

Cheers,

Ben

 

[Cuore_Sportivo_155]

it depends... I can do the work myself so it makes less sense to do them both than if you have to get the car booked in and/or miss some work.

 

[MrMin]

Is it best to do the other side at the same time?

Cheers,

Ben

Personal choice really.

In the past I always replaced them as pairs, simply because they are fairly cheap and easy to replace, and I always get a wheel alignment afterwards.
I am a fan of preventative maintenance for steering and braking parts.