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Discussion Starter #1
https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features/alfa-giulia-vs-bmw-m3-vs-mercedes-amg-c63-s/36258

The above is frustrating beyond measure and sadly plays right into the hands of those who like to perpetuate the all Alfas are unreliable line.

Here is a game changing car for Alfa and yet the press fleet provide one which doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

The very same fault has shown itself on my car and at least one other on this forum. A quick diagnosis with an OBD reader show sit as a CANBUS error, a CANBUS error which is addressed by the recent extensive software update programme.

The question is how on earth does a car get sent out on test which hasn't had this set of updates (all of which were identified as important to the point of warranty exclusion if it completed) applied ?





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an opportunity squandered it would seem.........!


lets be honest though, those that laugh at that and use it ''proof'' the Alfa are still off the pace in build quality terms were looking for it, and would never have given it the edge over the Germans even if the reviewer had.

on balance it sems fair as the reviewer did say the alfa has the potential to ''upset the germans'' if it worked right on the day.


As far as I can see once again its the administration and organisation side of AR that has failed here rather than the guys that design and build the car, these things happened, have been addressed with an update which was cleary not installed on the car that went off for a shootout against its two main rivals.

why ?

It's clearly the best car there and alfa have unfortunatley wasted another chance to prove it.


They need to do better moving forwards.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yep couldn't agree more. The general tone is very positive and it remains an excellent car. It's just galling to hand people the bullets to fire through a lack of professionalism and attention to detail.

Smacks of amateur hour and shows just how far Alfa still has to go in the UK. Whatever one may think of the piece or PH in general it's a hugely influential media outlet. I want to see this car being celebrated for all its fantastic qualities and it winds me up to see own goals like this.


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schitt happens

i would still buy a Quadrifoglio over the other two any day of the week, regardless of how many times i have to pit to get it fine tuned

once you drive Alfa and are part of Alfa (connect with the machine), these things are irrelevant, and the reviewer himself is almost in that space
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Pistonheads group test GQF vs M3 vs C63 - "Oh dear Alfa"

Maybe you would.

Many wouldn't and they shape their opinions based on what respected authorities report.

Most successful businesses are not run on a "**** happens" basis !


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Recently a collegue that likes to do long test drives had a brand new M4 for a week. On day one he was coming to work and it completely died on the motorway, all electronics dead. BMW recovered it and were troubleshooting for a week.
What im trying to say is this can happen to anyone.
 

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im beginning to smell a thinly disguised agenda Brook

lets just leave my response in the "what do you think" category and has been answered


:thumbu p:
 

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Recently a collegue that likes to do long test drives had a brand new M4 for a week. On day one he was coming to work and it completely died on the motorway, all electronics dead. BMW recovered it and were troubleshooting for a week.
What im trying to say is this can happen to anyone.
exactly, only i wasnt go to that much detail

comparitively speaking, all this is is a case of bad timing


;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Pistonheads group test GQF vs M3 vs C63 - "Oh dear Alfa"

im beginning to smell a thinly disguised agenda Brook

lets just leave my response in the "what do you think" category and has been answered


:thumbu p:

Wanting Alfa Romeo to succeed and make sure it sends properly prepared cars on test such that this kind of easily avoided negative coverage doesn't happen is somehow a thinly disguised agenda ?






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Discussion Starter #11
Recently a collegue that likes to do long test drives had a brand new M4 for a week. On day one he was coming to work and it completely died on the motorway, all electronics dead. BMW recovered it and were troubleshooting for a week.

What im trying to say is this can happen to anyone.


You are 100% correct.

Such things can and do happen to all kinds of cars.

The unfortunate thing here is that this is a known issue and there was a way to mitigate its likelihood.

Secondly the UKs largest performance motoring enthusiasts website is a significantly more powerful voice than a chap borrowing a car for the weekend.




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You are 100% correct.

Such things can and do happen to all kinds of cars.

The unfortunate thing here is that this is a known issue and there was a way to mitigate its likelihood.

Secondly the UKs largest performance motoring enthusiasts website is a significantly more powerful voice than a chap borrowing a car for the weekend.




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In agree 100% with Brooking. While it may happen on any car on a given day (for e.g. it happened on my friend's XE which just went all dead one day and it took them a month to sort out in the end needing a new ECU), when a car is provided for a test or head to head, you as a manufacturer should/must do everything possible to ensure the car is fully fit and has the latest updates and physical checks relating to ongoing campaigns especially if not having the update has the potential to bring up check engine errors. Race teams don't just arrive on the morning and put their cars against competition without preparation do they? While this is not a race, it certainly was a head-to-head against stiff competition in the premium sports segment. PH are quite influential and read by a lot of car enthusiasts. I too am disappointed. AR's UK co-ordination ability seems quite dis-jointed from my experiences so far.
 
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Wanting Alfa Romeo to succeed and make sure it sends properly prepared cars on test such that this kind of easily avoided negative coverage doesn't happen is somehow a thinly disguised agenda ?
ok i will possibly concede that my wording may not have reflected what i was trying to say...
im offering a positive point of view and a realistic judgement based on the known facts to counter what appears to be your willingness to accentuate the negative aspect of generalising that this sample of one car represents overall reliability

we all know the updates are addressing these issues as they emerge and we all know it isnt that critical to this cars success, just as BMW problems with the N64 4.4litre havent been critical to its success, and could be best summed in hindsight as "Yep, Giulia, had some sporadic errors thrown up, but have been or are being addressed with firmware updates"

the fact that has happened during a road test is of little consequence other than an emotional or a badly formed perception, most people who have this sort of money to spend rely on more than just a newspaper article, regardless of its credibility

is all im saying, without further trying to point out the obvious ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Per the above then I'm afraid I disagree

It's of significant consequence that this happened on a road test because it appears the car was not provided for said test with the fix for the known problem applied.

It then seems that it was not clearly communicated post the event that this was an easily remedied problem currently being addressed

If you think this is wilful negativity then you are wrong. It's a critique of poor media management in front of a crucial audience. It is not an attack or desire the undermine the intrinsic qualities of the excellent car.


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Secondly the UKs largest performance motoring enthusiasts website is a significantly more powerful voice than a chap borrowing a car for the weekend.
NewAlfisti is just making a point, and further enforces my point that you are trying to counter peoples opinions with negativity

its much much more than a chap borrowing a car for a weekend, it has generated a complete package, i think Microsoft call it a Service Pack to address certain "issues"

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bmw-offers-customer-care-package-for-n63-engines-confirms-report-about-reliability-issues-90678.html

has the UK's largest performance motoring enthusiasts website have any word of the N63 problems dying

we are still waiting for this package to be offered in Australia, no word from BMW but we still have these engines on the road failing
 

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If you think this is wilful negativity then you are wrong. It's a critique of poor media management in front of a crucial audience. It is not an attack or desire the undermine the intrinsic qualities of the excellent car.
yes, it might sound like sensational headline fodder for those current affairs type TV programs, but most serious enthusiasts wont be bothered by what they already know

yes i get your point, it was bad timing, but not a reliable statistical sample, which is my point
 

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In agree 100% with Brooking. While it may happen on any car on a given day (for e.g. it happened on my friend's XE which just went all dead one day and it took them a month to sort out in the end needing a new ECU), when a car is provided for a test or head to head, you as a manufacturer should/must do everything possible to ensure the car is fully fit and has the latest updates and physical checks relating to ongoing campaigns especially if not having the update has the potential to bring up check engine errors. Race teams don't just arrive on the morning and put their cars against competition without preparation do they? While this is not a race, it certainly was a head-to-head against stiff competition in the premium sports segment. PH are quite influential and read by a lot of car enthusiasts. I too am disappointed. AR's UK co-ordination ability seems quite dis-jointed from my experiences so far.
ok, i apologise in advance for still persisting with trying to be positive about the coincidence of faults during road tests, but at least they dont do what Samsung do and offer spruced up televisions to reviewers for example ... they have been caught out when their test press TVs did NOT match the ones you get in the box for common faults like backlight bleed, clarity and such...im happy to now know Alfa Romeo do NOT do this, anyway the point of this post was just to show you it can happen at any time to any review with any brand of car ...

case in point ...


that problem is still widely reported btw
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Pistonheads group test GQF vs M3 vs C63 - "Oh dear Alfa"

You are fundamentally missing the point here Papa Gallo.

As you say manufacturers quite regularly have to issue this kind of service pack. This is to be expected as cars because more and more digital in nature.

Rarely are these reported, as long as owners know and have it addressed in a timely fashion then so be it. Quite understandably makers don't make a song and dance about these things in the media.

The packs address issues which are statistically relevant enough to cause an issue and / or they add enhanced functionality.

So to the point of this story - yes it was bad timing this happened however it is already clear that there is a statistically relevant probability of this issue raising its head as a specific patch has been released to address it.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with amping up a review sample.

It's very simple - why on earth would you send your extremely important halo model into tough competition under the watchful eye of a massively influential media outlet without making sure it had all the latest factory updates applied, some of which were very specifically introduced because of certain failures manifesting themselves ?

It's just very very poor practice and has created unnecessary poor coverage and yet as fans and owners of the marque, and indeed the car in question, we are not able to recognise that without being accused of having an agenda !


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You are fundamentally missing the point here Papa Gallo.
NO,... i am offering a more realistic, less emotional alternative point of view

there is a huge difference between missing a point and disagreeing with your point

if i were to agree with you, we would both be wrong LOL

ciao

:wavey::lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Pistonheads group test GQF vs M3 vs C63 - "Oh dear Alfa"

NO,... i am offering a more realistic, less emotional alternative point of view



there is a huge difference between missing a point and disagreeing with your point



if i were to agree with you, we would both be wrong LOL



ciao



:wavey::lol:


Ah I see.

You disagree that Alfa Romeo UK should have sent the car for review with the known faults update applied ? That's the nub of my point plain and simple, seems a strange thing to take issue with.



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