Alfa Romeo Forum banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ALFA BRERA 2.4 MJET 20V
Bosch EDC16C39 CF4/EOBD Diesel Injection (1.9, 2.4)
--------------------------------------------------------------
READING ERROR CODES:
1: P2135 - TPS/Ped. Pos.Sen./Sw A/B Volts Correl.
TPS/Ped. Pos.Sen./Sw A/B Volts Correl.
The reason for this fault is that ECU has received invalid signal from the sensor. The fault is not detected now, but it is stored in memory. Clear fault codes, and observe for future appearance of the same fault. Dashboard warning light was activated for this fault.

As soon as I touch the gas pedal this alert is triggered, and therefore stops my Qtronic from working.

My gas pedal does show readings for the following sensors...
"Gas pedal position"
"Gas pedal position signal 1"
"Gas pedal position signal 2"
"Accelerator pedal track"

The attachment shows the readings changing. (The rpm increase, from 800rpm to 1500rpm was when the gas pedal was touched. It stays on this until the alert is force cleared, but triggers again as soon as you touch gas)

How do I fix this?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,786 Posts
check you get 2 5v feeds to the accellerator pedal, and have 2 grounds.

if that'sok and the correlation between A and B isn't consistent, you need a new gaspedal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
check you get 2 5v feeds to the accellerator pedal, and have 2 grounds.

if that'sok and the correlation between A and B isn't consistent, you need a new gaspedal.
Does A & B relate to gas pedal postion 1 and postion 2, as per my attachment? Are my readings showing incorrect values?

If replacement, is it the Drive Pedal Kit (BOSCH, OEN 50505939)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi, I've not had this problem myself but there is a thread abut this error here:
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...-brera-2-4-jtdm-qtronic-error-p1235-help.html
According to that thread the throttle body needed replacing.
I just saw that post, hopefully mine is just too clogged. Cheapest used one on eBay is £90, else £326+ from AR!

A great guide written by Pete McK on how to the throttle body...
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...2-4-jtdm-throttle-body-and-egr-clean-out.html
Sadly, I don't have the skills and my local garage is shut till next week. I can't go anywhere else as Qtronic won't get out of 1st gear because of this sensor issue.

Would anyone like to earn some holiday cash?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,786 Posts
Does A & B relate to gas pedal postion 1 and postion 2, as per my attachment? Are my readings showing incorrect values?

If replacement, is it the Drive Pedal Kit (BOSCH, OEN 50505939)?
I just noticed TPS, which would suggest Throttle Position Sensor vs APS Accellerator Pedal Sensor.

Both work in the same way though, so check the wiring / sensor at the Throttle body.

Put both values in a graph, you can then see the fault easily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just went to check more readings and this time it allowed the gas pedal to work! Odd, as the last 6 attempts they all failed the same. I just drove around the block (don't want to risk getting stuck somewhere!). I checked for error codes and now I have new ones...

1: P0101 - Air flow meter signal
Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit Range/Performance Problem
The reason for this fault is that ECU did not receive signal from the sensor. The fault is present now. Take appropriate action to fix this sensor fault. Dashboard warning light was activated for this fault.
2: P0111 - Intake Air Temp. (2)
Intake Air Temperature Circuit Range/Performance Problem
The reason for this fault is that ECU did not receive signal from the sensor. The fault is present now. Take appropriate action to fix this sensor fault. Dashboard warning light was activated for this fault.

They won't clear. A search found another user with this issue,
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...346-maf-error-wont-clear.html?highlight=p0101
They replaced a 'services' fuse to fix it. I just checked 'services' F49, F35 & F51, but all OK.

Previously it read, Air temperature (MAF): 17.76 °C
Now it reads, Air temperature (MAF): 1270.70 °C

How are these two different issues (gas pedal and MAF) related?

I'm now more confused.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just started the car today, and am back at the original problem, P2135 when you touch the gas pedal. I now get 3 x alerts, P2135, P0101, P0111.

I don't think this will be electrics/fuse/connections related as the car has hardly moved since yesterday. Could all these alerts be caused by black soot in the throttle body area?
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...2-4-jtdm-throttle-body-and-egr-clean-out.html

Again, Would anyone like to earn some holiday cash?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
353 Posts
A disconnect of the MAF sensor should throw it into limp home mode, i am lead to believe it reverts to a 'base map' if no/faulty MAF is detected on start up... this may not help anything until the throttle fault is fixed though

I can upload eLEARN process for testing the 159s throttle pedal itself. But you should be able to see if its the ECU is seeing the correct signal via FES.

in a nut shell... ign on, eng off.
@ 0% throttle input,
Track 1 should be <1v
Track 2 should be <0.5v

@ 'slightly operated' throttle input
Track 1 should be >1v
Track 2 should be >0.5v

@ greater than 90% throttle input
Track 1 should be >3v
Track 2 should be >1.5v

ill be honest and admit that my skills of diagnosing voltage values in anything are non-existent. BUT it seems strange to me that track 1 has an almost rock solid 982.2mV where as track 2 fluctuates by nearly 80mV, over the first 160seconds.

if i had to put money on it i would have said Track 1 is at fault but i dont have enough info to accurately give you any more advice. :paperbag:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The MAF is now showing errors, but why just start alerting now? It only shows in FES, no lights on dashboard. Seems like there are 'gremlins' in my electrics because why does the gas pedal work one day, but not next, then OK day after :confused:

My gas pedal test was done with engine running. I will test again tomorrow with engine off. I still have my old 159 2.4 Qtronic, so will replicate the test on that for comparsion, then upload results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
353 Posts
The MAF is now showing errors, but why just start alerting now? It only shows in FES, no lights on dashboard. Seems like there are 'gremlins' in my electrics because why does the gas pedal work one day, but not next, then OK day after :confused:

My gas pedal test was done with engine running. I will test again tomorrow with engine off. I still have my old 159 2.4 Qtronic, so will replicate the test on that for comparsion, then upload results.
you could possibly try swapping the throttle units over to see if it helps anything. :) just a thought... seems like the Breras and 159s share a lot of kit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
in a nut shell... ign on, eng off.
@ 0% throttle input,
Track 1 should be <1v
Track 2 should be <0.5v

@ 'slightly operated' throttle input
Track 1 should be >1v
Track 2 should be >0.5v

@ greater than 90% throttle input
Track 1 should be >3v
Track 2 should be >1.5v
Test both the 159 and Brera (when it was working) today and all readings match those ranges you advised.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Today (albeit briefly) I managed to clear the P0101, P0111 errors so took some readings...

READING PARAMETERS:
Intake air quantity: 0.0 mg/i
Desired intake air quantity: 1199.5 mg/i
Intake air quantity signal period: 0.533 ms
Air temperature (MAF): 1.16 °C

Within minutes it failed to read again.

So, yet again, what could be causing these unstable alerts (when the car has not moved!)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
353 Posts
I'm guessing that is a garage job?
if you are not confident with wielding spanners then i would advise for you to take it to your trusted garage :)

Test both the 159 and Brera (when it was working) today and all readings match those ranges you advised.
kinda what i expected, but did the 159 show any fluctuating mV readings @0% throttle on Track 1? (as track 2 was showing for brera, in your attached excel file)

Today (albeit briefly) I managed to clear the P0101, P0111 errors so took some readings...

READING PARAMETERS:
Intake air quantity: 0.0 mg/i
Desired intake air quantity: 1199.5 mg/i
Intake air quantity signal period: 0.533 ms
Air temperature (MAF): 1.16 °C

Within minutes it failed to read again.

So, yet again, what could be causing these unstable alerts (when the car has not moved!)?
P0101
I'd only expect this to show, with regards to the below points, with engine running:-

Inspect for any vacuum leaks downstream of the MAF sensor.

'Inspect for a restriction in the induction system or the exhaust system.' this to me would kinda point to the swirl flaps in the intake manifold being forced shut...(P0101 Trouble Code - Mass Air Flow (MAF) Circuit Range/Performance Problem)

if its showing at ign on eng off, id suspect gremlins or a failing/failed MAF

P0111
This is a pretty simple code and it only really looks for extremely quick changes that are relatively high in voltage. apparently It's usually the sensor that is bad unless the vehicle is extremely old, in which case there may be harness problems.

P0101 coupled with P0111 to me points to a failed MAF as the ambient temp sensor and MAF sensor are in the same unit.

all of this could also be a dicky relay... I don't know what relay controls which systems so it might be better to hope someone else can help... as said I'm a little green with Alfas at the moment. Sorry if I'm not being helpfull :paperbag:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
[QUOTE = "kendir, yayın: 14147089, üye: 34209"]
A & B, ekime göre gaz pedalı konum 1 ve konum 2 ile ilgili mi? Değerlerim yanlış değerler gösterir mu?

Değiştirilirse, Tahrik Pedalı Kiti (BOSCH, OEN 50505939) mı?
[/ ALINTI]
[QUOTE = "kendir, posta: 14151441, üye: 34209"]
Bugün arabayı yeni başlattım ve gaz pedalına dokunduğunuzda orijinal sorun olan P2135'e geri döndüm. Şimdi 3 x uyarı alıyorum, P2135, P0101, P0111.

Bunun dünden beri zor hareket ettiği için bunun elektrik / sigorta / bağlantı olacağını sanmıyorum. Tüm bu uyarılara gaz kelebeği gövdesi alanındaki siyah kurum neden olabilir mi?
How To: 2.4 JTDm throttle body & EGR clean-out

Yine kimse tatil parası kazanmak ister mi?
[/ALINTI]
Merhaba 159 1.9 jtd otomatik araç ve aynı sorunu var. Gaz pedalı p2135'e dokunduğunda bir hata yapar. Ancak bazen kendi kendine düzeliyor sen nasıl cözüdünüz
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top