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Discussion Starter #1
I had my cambelt and waterpump replaced 6 weeks ago. Since then I have been having intermittent problems with the car not starting. Using Multiecuscan (free version) it gives the codes P1173 and P1176 (Mixture Strength (additive) Signal high , fatal.

Sometimes if I disconnect the battery it will restart after a few minutes, other times I have to clear the codes.

The car then might run perfectly for a week or 10 days, then wont start again randomly. Temperature doesnt seem to have anything to do with it.

After clearing errors if car is parked uphill it doesnt seem to like restarting till its on the flat.

The car is a 2003 with 170,000km on the clock, I have owned it since 20011 with 70000KM . The ECU was replaced in 2013 due to constant Motor Control System Failures. it is my daily driver with at least 2 starts per day.

Strangely if I turn the climate control completely off the car idles a bit rough. seems happier with Climate Control on with Fans kicking in.

After clearing the error codes, If I run the car with Multiecuscan connected the Lambdas give these readings:

Lambda 1 signal (precat) 0.768V
Lambda signal 2 (precat) 0.753V
Lambda 1 Signal (aftercat) 0.421V
Lambda signal 2 (aftercat) 0.411V

Lambda 1 Status (precat) Closed Loop
Lambda 1 Status (aftercat) Open Loop
Lambda 2 Status (precat) Closed Loop
Lambda 2 Status (aftercat) Open Loop

Closed Loop meaning circuit good, Open Loop meaning circuit bad

But am I correct in saying if the Lambda signals are giving readings then there must be a good circuit?

As all this happened after the connections were disturbed for cambelt replacement could it be as simple as just needing to clean all connections with contact cleaner?

Has anyone else had issues like this?
 

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Check the air intake piping for air leaks, splits, not fitted correctly.

Air leaks after the MAF can cause such issues.
 

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After clearing the error codes, If I run the car with Multiecuscan connected the Lambdas give these readings:

Lambda 1 signal (precat) 0.768V
Lambda signal 2 (precat) 0.753V
Lambda 1 Signal (aftercat) 0.421V
Lambda signal 2 (aftercat) 0.411V

Lambda 1 Status (precat) Closed Loop
Lambda 1 Status (aftercat) Open Loop
Lambda 2 Status (precat) Closed Loop
Lambda 2 Status (aftercat) Open Loop

Closed Loop meaning circuit good, Open Loop meaning circuit bad
The readings seem perfectly fine, and no, Open Loop does not mean bad circuit.
 

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Where the correct GTA cam locking tools used when replacing the belt? Its not unheard of garages incorrectly using the 3.0 V6 locks.
I would agree with BazzBazz above that the air intakes / piping would be the most likely area to resolve this but thought it worth asking if the correct cam locks were used.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Where the correct GTA cam locking tools used when replacing the belt? Its not unheard of garages incorrectly using the 3.0 V6 locks.
I would agree with BazzBazz above that the air intakes / piping would be the most likely area to resolve this but thought it worth asking if the correct cam locks were used.
Yes correct cam locks were used . I know, I bought them from Totally Alfa for my last change 4 years ago. The job was done both times by an expert Alfa mechanic with TDC dial tool.

One thing I didnt mention is that when the car wont start it is actually turning over normally , just wont fire up.

Its really strange that when it is going it runs perfectly through whole rev range, then is fine for a few days before it goes back to the same problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So I have pulled the intake hose off and checked for any leaks, could'nt find any. Dismantled the MAF sensor and cleaned it with CRC MAF Cleaner. Cleaned air filter (Autodelta foam filter). Nothing actually looked dirty.

The MAF Sensor was actually replaced about 4 years ago, Bosch. So not very old.

Put it all back together and ran up to temperature , got similar Lambda readings as above.

Would be interesting to know what all the parameter readings should be like on MES for a similar car?

I will now keep fingers crossed and see how it starts next few days , cold and hot starts.
 

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Have a look at the fuel pipe that connects the two fuel rails together, I've seen problems with them before particularly when the pipe has already been replaced for aftermarket fuel hose.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Problem has returned but with a difference.

So after cleaning the MAF yesterday, started the car several times over the day. Started car this morning no problem, started again 2 hours later no problem. went for drive up to full temperature. Went back to car an hour later wouldnt start. Disconected battery, half an hour later still wouldnt start. Went home got laptop, reconnected Battery, so a further half hour, scanned on MES, NO FAULT CODES. Still wouldnt start. Unplugged Laptop , about to get tow truck, gave it one more go. STARTED. Went for drive to a different mechanic, talked for half an hour , car started again.

Car is now booked in for next week to try and find out whats wrong, they are thinking Crank Sensor which was my original fault (RMP Sensor) but only stored , not fatal, which I forgot to mention at the beginning of this thread, probably as it hasnt shown up again. Originally my other mechanic thought RMP Sensor was the Cam Sensor so we switched it with one off another car and all was well, for 10 days anyway.

But all of this may be coincidental, maybe its something else?

The fact that when it does start it goes perfectly and now has no fault code is perplexing.

I will let you know what happens.
 

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they are thinking Crank Sensor which was my original fault (RMP Sensor) but only stored , not fatal, which I forgot to mention at the beginning of this thread,
REALLY! Ya think that of ALL the info you gave you left that one little tidbit out! REALLY! :irked:

And YES, it will be the Crank Sensor. :grin:

Well at least now you know what the problem is and can sit back and enjoy a beer and de-stresss. :beer:
 

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Well if it is the crank sensor that's an easy one to sort. When mine went, it would not start for maybe 1 hour after being turned off. Once started ran fine. Very easy to change.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for your replies. Yes I am dumb for not mentioning the Crankshaft sensor but as that Fault code had not come up again I thought it couldnt be the issue. Also a week before I started another Thread "Crankshaft or Cam Sensor problem" only got one reply.

Also wondered whether it could be a faulty Fuel Pump relay?
 

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Had the exact same problem about 2 months ago. When started, ran perfectly but when I switched it off after a decent drive, it would take roughly 20 minutes to restart again. Once it turned off when I put the clutch in and was coasting to the lights, which was scary, gave low oil pressure warning and would not start again for 15 minutes whilst stuck at an intersection. Had the exact same 2 codes P1173 and P1176, MES told me it was RPM sensor. Took to mechanic, changed the crank angle sensor and all was good again! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hopefully Crank sensor being replaced on Monday by a well known Alfa garage in Christchurch NZ, Italian Job.

Another question. On the 147 GTA there are three Relays sitting in front of the battery, what are they for?
left to right.

In the fuse box on the right hand side of the battery there are six relays, some are obvious as to what they are for but there are two with an Engine symbol marked T10 and T09 what are they for?

Are any of these the Fuel Pump Relay or is that somewhere else?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So on the 6th day after replacing the crank sensor, I was stuck in traffic and a Motor Control System Failure warning light came on. Car was idling quite normally and up to full normal temperature. Light stayed on as you would expect till I cleared the error on MES. it was yet again P1173 P1176 Fatal. Didnt drive car yesterday at all but when I started it this morning a bit rough for maybe 20 seconds them came right.
I will wait and see what happens in next few days.
 

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I have had issues with aftermarket crank sensors, I don't fit them anymore. In both cases it was a Facet sensor which caused me trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
update, hopefully problem solved now.

In the last few days the car developed a whistling noise that came and went on low throttle. finally got worse, sounded like a shrieking bearing or loose auxilliary belt. On generally looking around the engine bay , I was leaning on the chrome intake runners and found two of them loose, as in where they meet the engine block, the hex/allen screws took several turns do do up tightly. Noise fixed.

I am hoping this was also what was causing the P1173 P1176 mixture strength codes,

This was undoubtedly a hangover from when the Cambelt was replaced, as one of my mechanic "mates" is a bit "rip **** and bust". The penalty you pay for getting work done on the cheap.
 
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