Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

Finally found a GTV, and have already fixed one issue (The aerial had failed, I've replaced the relay inside the aerial and it now works :) )

Anyway, one issue is the rev counter over reads. It's not major just a little bit annoying! When giving it some stick it's well past 8000RPM (off the scale) with no sign of the limiter. With it being a new car etc I need to get used to where the power is etc etc and the rev counter is a good reference for this :)

So people, any ideas?!

Cheers

Ben

V6 btw
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
How many revs does it read when its idling?
And how many at a steady 60mph in top gear (is it 5 or 6).
It's a six speed I'm holding off driving it at the moment as it needs a cambelt and I dont want to risk it :( (Going in a week on Tuesday)

Does anyone know what mph/rpms the gears are? I can then compile a list of speeds /rpms etc and see how far it is out. Could a 4 cylinder gauge have been fitted maybe?


Cheers

Ben
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,090 Posts
I've got a list of the ratios on a spreadsheet at work that someone from the old sportsalfa forum posted, so can look on monday.
I seem to remember that in 3rd the car will be at 96mph at the standard 7200rpm limit.
so at 50mph you should be at 3750

Only thing is that I don't know if they relate to the 16 or 17" tyre size, as there's a 4% difference there.

Also was talking to a local Alfa specialist recently about the reading that they see when they hook up the car to the diagnostics and he said that the limiter doesn't always kick in effectively as he's seen readings of over 8000rpm recorded on the ecu's of the V6s before
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,480 Posts
I've got a list of the ratios on a spreadsheet at work that someone from the old sportsalfa forum posted, so can look on monday.
I seem to remember that in 3rd the car will be at 96mph at the standard 7200rpm limit.
so at 50mph you should be at 3750

Only thing is that I don't know if they relate to the 16 or 17" tyre size, as there's a 4% difference there.

Also was talking to a local Alfa specialist recently about the reading that they see when they hook up the car to the diagnostics and he said that the limiter doesn't always kick in effectively as he's seen readings of over 8000rpm recorded on the ecu's of the V6s before

The overrevs recorded in the ecu's are from downchanges!!!!!!!
Rev limiter is part of the software and always works:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
you could try getting a second hand binnicle, or just follow anouther gtv and see wear your rev range is so u know wot u r getting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Cheers guys I'll let you know how I get on, need to work out whether it's giving a random reading, or a consistant over read.

Ben
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
OK Guys an update, at 80MPH in sixth I'm reading 4500RPM which I can only assume is miles off. So any ideas? :) 17 Inch teledials with the standard tyres on......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,090 Posts
OK Guys an update, at 80MPH in sixth I'm reading 4500RPM which I can only assume is miles off. So any ideas? :) 17 Inch teledials with the standard tyres on......
yeah, you should be at 105mph at 4500rpm !!

Is much too big a difference to be due to tyres, no idea why it's over reading though..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I reckon it must have 4 Cylinder clocks fitted then:

4500RPM / 80 MPH = 56.25Rev/Mph
4500RPM / 105MPH = 42.85Rev/Mph

Therefore as the V6 has 2 more spark's per cycle than a 4 cylinder , hence I'm getting an over reading rev counter.

Now where is the mileage stored? The engine ECU or the clocks itself? Using Unidiag, there is a odometer value stored in the ECU. Is this used for the clocks does anyone know?

Best Regards

Ben
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Ok everyone, swapped them out with some new ones from Rod. Guess what, they work fine, so theres a definite issue with my clocks. I swapped the stepper motor over from the new clocks to mine just in case, but nope, issue still present.

So it looks to be a problem with the Microprocessor controlling the stepper :( No idea why though, perhaps they are twinspark clocks.

Best Regards

Ben
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Well an update to this for anyone who is interested!

I've fixed it by swapping the Stepper Motor driver over with the one I had from the V6 clocks I'd purchased. It seems this chip is programmable, however I couldn't find a datasheet on it so I had no other option but to swap it over!

No need to mess about with having the Odometer reprogrammed so saved myself some cash there!

Only slightly worrying thing is why were 4 Cylinder clocks in my car in the first place :( Maybe something failed on the originals? Luckily the old MOT's seem to back the mileage up so at least I know I haven't bought a clocked car!

Ben
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,535 Posts
Well an update to this for anyone who is interested!

I've fixed it by swapping the Stepper Motor driver over with the one I had from the V6 clocks I'd purchased. It seems this chip is programmable, however I couldn't find a datasheet on it so I had no other option but to swap it over!

No need to mess about with having the Odometer reprogrammed so saved myself some cash there!

Only slightly worrying thing is why were 4 Cylinder clocks in my car in the first place :( Maybe something failed on the originals? Luckily the old MOT's seem to back the mileage up so at least I know I haven't bought a clocked car!

Ben
Hi Ben

Sorry to dig out this old thread, but I have a similar problem with my Son's LHD V6 12v Spider, when it was imported the speedo rev counter unit was changed and now the rev counter over reads

Can you point out the component you swapped?

Thanks

Rich ;)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,083 Posts
Rich,

Bit of a guess but are the motors not on the back of the gauge itself? As opposed to the PCB in your photo. If so you would have to remove the gauge needle from the front of the face before removing the motor from the back side (easy to do with care). From what phase GTV are your replacement gauges from?

Murray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,535 Posts
Thanks Murray for the suggestion

I took off the cover behind the rev counter - there seems to be copper windings - does not look like a stepper motor to me!!!

But let me give the full story that shows why I asked the question of Benje

Son's Spider is a Ph1 v6 12v LHD 1996 - when imported into UK in 2009, the 1st MOT showed ODO reading in kms, but with a failure that MPH was not shown on the Speedo dial. So, I assume, the owner at that time sourced another Speedo/ Rev counter unit and swapped the whole thing so that that MOT failure was fixed. indeed the MOT record shows ODO reading in Miles!!! but now the Rev counter over reads! hence my assumption is that the replacement unit was from a 4 cylinder Ph1 car

I have a "spares" V6 24v Ph2 spider, with spare Speedo/ rev counter - so when I saw Benje's post I thought I could make the same swap!!! (can't fit the unit directly cos its a Ph2 and problem car is Ph1!!)

Maybe I'll swap the rev counter dial itself before getting out the soldering iron to see if the over reading is corrected (can't use permanently cos its a ph2!) but I'm not convinced its to do with the dial itself, because I'm assuming Benje would have swapped the dial - he talks about "stepper motor driver"

Cheers

Rich ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,083 Posts
Rich

I've been messing about with different binnacles for the last couple of months, including led lighting & clock faces etc. This is what I have found out although I suspect you know already:

Ph 1, 2 & 3 binnacles are not interchangeable - you need the right binnacle for your Phase.

As well as the correct phase it needs to come from the right cyl config.

The main PCB (as per your photo) is the same part no. between Ph2 & Ph3, I suspect it's the same for a Ph1 but the components (chips) on the PCB are definitely different. Different calibration chips for the different phase/cyl models.

I think you need to replace the RPM tacho chip (not stepper motor) with the V6 chip from the same Phase. I think the stepper motors mentioned are the armatures on the rear face of the dials (i.e. armatures generate the needle movement, the chip controls the amount of needle movement). How's your soldering?;)

Probably easier to find a replacement cluster?

Binnacle Swap
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,535 Posts
The main PCB (as per your photo) is the same part no. between Ph2 & Ph3, I suspect it's the same for a Ph1 but the components (chips) on the PCB are definitely different. Different calibration chips for the different phase/cyl models.
Thanks for your reply - I'll check the board on the Ph1 3.0 12v car to see if its the same layout

I think you need to replace the RPM tacho chip (not stepper motor) with the V6 chip from the same Phase.
Any idea which chip it is? will a Ph1 GTV 3.0 24v chip work? I think our spider is known as an early Ph1, with changing in '98 to late Ph1 (or is it '97?)

How's your soldering?;)
Not bad, willing to give it a go!

Probably easier to find a replacement cluster?
Yes agreed, but will a unit for a Ph1 GTV 3.0 24v work with my Son's Ph1 Spider 3.0 12v?

I've been looking for a LHD/ KMs unit on eBay.de for a while and the only one thats may fit are from post '98 GTV/Spider 2.0TB, but given they have different part numbers in ePer, I'm not convinced they will work! :confused:

I will solve this!

Rich ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,083 Posts
Hey Rich,

This has been bugging me.....Can't you just swap the MPH dial (just the face with needle) from your new cluster for your km/h dial in your old cluster?

Of course you will still have your odometer reading (LCD display) in kms but I expect that could be reprogrammed easier than you having to find & adjust the revs chip.

Sorry if I've misunderstood!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,535 Posts
Hey Rich,

This has been bugging me.....Can't you just swap the MPH dial (just the face with needle) from your new cluster for your km/h dial in your old cluster?

Of course you will still have your odometer reading (LCD display) in kms but I expect that could be reprogrammed easier than you having to find & adjust the revs chip.

Sorry if I've misunderstood!
Hi Murray

Yes that is exactly what I would have done, if I had imported the car

Unfortunately I don't have the KMs unit, the owner in 2009 simply swapped in the whole unit from a MPH ph1 4 cyl car and discarded the original unit

So we are left with the Rev counter over reading issue

So in summary IMO there are two solutions:

1)Source a complete new/2nd hand unit from a Ph1 v6 car (this will probably be a KMs version, so I'll do the swap the speedo as you suggest)

2) Find out what component that Benje swapped and get out the soldering iron

Cheers

Rich ;)
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top