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Hi guys

The question is in the title. In alfa's long history of producing cars, do you think the G is truly representative of the brand and what it stands for, or do you feel like it was made without the true essence of alfa being kept in mind?

Here's why i ask - the g (and the mito for that matter) both represent what can only be viewed as a low point in alfa's history. Little investment, no new models and almost no brand exposure until the past year or so left the brand on the outskirts of the motoring industry.

When i decided i wanted an alfa, i was deciding between the 159 and G. I eventually went with the G because it was a newer car (and the 159 had already been discontinued) so i felt it would be a better option.

I sometimes feel like the g and mito were made at a time when alfa had to make cars just for the sake of existing. And because of this the car does not demand respect among the 'older generation' of alfisti who are used to driving alfa's when they were made during their heyday.

Thoughts?

And also, do you guys feel like the Guilia is more representative of the older alfa generation in terms of style and quality, or is it an attempt at a mass-production commercial vehicle for the masses?
 

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Having owned two 147's, a ph2 gtv and now a 159, my ownership history might be limited. I have a friend however who owned every model since 1998 except the 145, mito and 4c. His dad also had a long history with older alfas. He indicated on a couple of times that the G has been a low point in built quality, especially coming from the over engineered 159.

I was able to drive both the G and 159 around Kyalami at a Chatz day in 2012 and walked away thinking that the 147kw 159 was way better than the 173kw G as an overall package.

I bought my 159 in 2013 new, two years after production seazed and the price was notably cheaper than the bottom of the range G. The only aspect where I think the G is better would be fuel aconomy, but I drive less these days.
 

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Yes they do, I'll answer on behalf of them. I am in a privy position to have relationships with Alfa people all over SA, both young and old. This is a major cancer the clubs suffer from, the members'(usually over 45 years old) inability to accept that fwd Alfa's exist. I'd disagree with your friend's dad in his opinion that the G is a low point, a 1743cc turbo engine that delivers class leading performance, a e-Diff that was introduced in 2010 was also class leading, not to mention the driving modes and its technical abilities, regarding build quality...the G, lagging behind the 156 and 159 is miles ahead of any 1980's or 90's Alfa. Even when the Giulia reaches our shores these 'stuck in the 116's and below series Alfisti will have problems with it, that's acceptable as its their opinion, someone has to keep the 60's and 70's and 80's cars running.

The G's sales worldwide show a basic acceptance for the car...not as good as 147/156...but reasonable, so no I don't agree with guys that feel the need to downgrade a G or 159 or 4c simply because it does not meet their tastes. The Giulia will be a resounding success simply because it will appeal not only to Alfisit but to more customers out there.:smoker:
 
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What Lance Said^^^^

To add my two cents, from my own personal perspective....
I have owned at least one Alfa at any point in time since 1988, and at times up to 5 at the same time. I have tried going to other brands (Honda, Nissan, Toyota, VW and most recently BMW). None of these other brands could float my boat, other than the Sentra 200 STi and VW Jetta2 CLi (both these were excellent cars).
When I sold my Giulietta QV last year I bought the industry standard drivers car (according to the car journos) the BMW 320i (F30). I can tell you that it is not close to being as engaging or fun to drive as the Giulietta or the MiTo. Numb steering, disappointing performance, terrible brakes and very flabby handling (mine was a Sport edition, I expected sporty handling, all I got was harsh ride thanks to the terrible run-flats)

Back in the early 90s when Alfa launched the FWD 145/6, 155 and carried over the 164, some of the so-called Alfisti did their nut because the cars were no longer RWD. The evolution of these cars resulted in the 156 and 147 , which were the best selling Alfas of all time..... so , yes, Alfa actually can make a good main-stream car, and have to do it again to stay alive. I can see why the old Alfisti may look down on the Giulietta and MiTo, but these views are prejudiced in my opinion. The cars still make you feel special, they still evoke emotion and sets you apart from the other lemmings out there.
 

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When I sold my Giulietta QV last year I bought the industry standard drivers car (according to the car journos) the BMW 320i (F30). I can tell you that it is not close to being as engaging or fun to drive as the Giulietta or the MiTo. Numb steering, disappointing performance, terrible brakes and very flabby handling (mine was a Sport edition, I expected sporty handling, all I got was harsh ride thanks to the terrible run-flats)
My opinion is that alot of car journo's play follow the leader. If a so called expert like Chris Harris or Tiff Needell (both openly pro-BMW) says a BMW is awesome with fantastic handling then they'll all say the same.

They also rave about how in a RWD BMW you can hang the tail out and go round corners sideways. In reality probably less than 5% of BMW drivers do that with their cars. Even BMW knows this which is why they're moving some of their smaller cars over to FWD like the 2 series ActiveTourer and apparently the new 2 series sedan.
 

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In reality probably less than 5% of BMW drivers do that with their cars. Even BMW knows this which is why they're moving some of their smaller cars over to FWD like the 2 series ActiveTourer and apparently the new 2 series sedan.

BMW did some survey under their existing customers owning a 1-series and the results came out that 80% of the owners thought the car was front-wheel-drive.

That's the reason why they are moving over to FWD. The vast majority of owners of the smaller cars don't know and don't care about RWD.
 

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This is a personal taste/opinion issue I suppose. I am in the lucky position to be able to choose between "the Old" and "the Modern" when I walk to my garage.

Somehow - "the old" always wins. The driving experience is just so much more involving :smoker:

My opinion - of course.
 

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BMW did some survey under their existing customers owning a 1-series and the results came out that 80% of the owners thought the car was front-wheel-drive.

That's the reason why they are moving over to FWD. The vast majority of owners of the smaller cars don't know and don't care about RWD.
That is utterly terrifying for the simple reason you drive a front wheel drive car very differently to how you drive a rear wheel drive car (as I'm sure everyone on here appreciates), and you can only imagine what situations this 80% get themselves (and other drivers) into as a result of their ignorance.
 

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That is utterly terrifying for the simple reason you drive a front wheel drive car very differently to how you drive a rear wheel drive car (as I'm sure everyone on here appreciates), and you can only imagine what situations this 80% get themselves (and other drivers) into as a result of their ignorance.
Is it surprising that most people on the road don't know how to drive?
It's a good thing, though, that this 80% of drivers probably never even go halfway near the limit of grip of their cars.
 

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I cant get past the looks of the mito or giulietta so wont be owning either but i certainly dont think they are a lesser alfa..i do expect to own a giulia at some point:thumbup:
 

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That is utterly terrifying for the simple reason you drive a front wheel drive car very differently to how you drive a rear wheel drive car (as I'm sure everyone on here appreciates), and you can only imagine what situations this 80% get themselves (and other drivers) into as a result of their ignorance.
Is it surprising that most people on the road don't know how to drive?
It's a good thing, though, that this 80% of drivers probably never even go halfway near the limit of grip of their cars.
Giorget beat me to it.

People don't drive FWD and RWD differently, they drive them exactly the same, and they don't need to either. You should drive them differently if you are going anywhere near the limits, but the vast majority of people won't do this. Even when that vast majority do know if their car is front or rear drive they don't know what to do if it gets away from them.

If you do know what to do, unless you practice regularly you're still likely to get bitten in the ass as it's a degradable skill. Plus if you've practiced regularly in one model, then change car, you're still risking a problem. Try driving an early 205GTi or Puma (both of which handle very much like RWD around the limits) hard as you would a MiTo or a G!



On the original question, I really like the MiTo. I'd have bought one as a driving school car if I hadn't been able to get a huge discount on a new Punto. I tried the G, but just couldn't get a comfortable position.

Yes there are some people who see FWD as inferior, and I guess in some ways it is, but most people look at the car as a whole and not just the drive-train. I'd love a 166 if they did the JTDm here, but they didn't. FWD isn't the reason I didn't buy one, the lack of range did that.

To me the G was a compromise. Alfa felt they needed a larger hatch, so that's what they made, but it never had a chance for volume compared to the usual suspects so why try to take them on. Alfa has never been a volume business, so why try competing in that way. Stick to what they do best, great driver's cars, and they'll do well. Dilute the brand and they'll go the way of Lancia and end up selling re-branded :censored:
 

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Why oh why did the not make the 916 GTV rear wheel drive
Because Nissan 350Z pirouette in the rain for nothing:

Gerrit Falling Alfa rameo 156 01:25.951
Feroz Osmah-Latib Subaru Legacy 01:34.436
Quinten Tolken Nissan 350Z 01:36.057
Jason Partington Nissan 350 Z 01:37.694


and that is MAINLY because:
 

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But the MiTo is inspired by the 8C? So automatically it has the history aspect going for it. Though the 8C is also relatively new, it's legendary. The MiTo still looks and handles like an Alfa should.. Absolutely amazingly! And for what it is, it goes like nothing in its class (besides abarths maybe) just like all other Alfa's. So much more than the sum of their parts and they're always better than their competitors. I've only had a 156 and 146 besides the MiTo lol so maybe my opinion is irrelevant. But even with the FWD Alfa's.. I've never had a more interactive car in my life. I don't drive it. It drives with me.
 

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Gerrit you a lot quicker than a 1:25 in that 156 :) sandbagger :)
Its not the FWD or BWD of an Alfa. Its the way they make you feel when driving them. I've owned a Giula super, Alfetta Super 155 and 916 GTV and race a 116 GTV and love all of them. They all have the same thing. The way they make you feel when you drive them.
 

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That is utterly terrifying for the simple reason you drive a front wheel drive car very differently to how you drive a rear wheel drive car (as I'm sure everyone on here appreciates), and you can only imagine what situations this 80% get themselves (and other drivers) into as a result of their ignorance.
To the contrary, it utterly terrifies me that people would drive their car aggressively enough ,on the public roads I use ,to need to drive differently in a Fwd to a Rwd car!
 

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Here's hoping I don't open up the "older" vs "younger" debate :)

As one of the "older" guys on the forum, I can tell you that as a teenager in the late 70's the Alfa brand was seen as an exclusive car. Almost everyone I knew wanted one. The main competition in those days came from Datsun, Toyota and BMW. Alfa's would eat up and spit out the BMW's at Kyalami... (BMW's were a bit quicker down the straight, but after Crowthorne the Alfa's would come back at the BMW's; their handling was visibly better.... :)

When a mate of mine bought a brand new Giulietta in around 1980, that car was the talk of the town. We would go to his house, just to look at and admire the car in the driveway. With extensive advertising on TV (Safe at 180, therefore twice as safe at 90...) ((Yep, there was a time when the speed limit was 90 km/h))the Alfa Giulietta was in a class of it's own. And then came the Group 1..... once at a traffic light we even pulled over and waved one past us so we could admire it; the driver gave us a casual "thanks" wave...

For me it's not so much a question of FWD or RWD at all; FWD or RWD is relevant in terms of how you can drive a car, but it does not diminish or affect the appeal that the car has.

However back in the 80's, the "status" (for want of a better word) of owning a Giulietta (or any Alfa for that matter)was totally different from today. Currently I think it's largely due to what I consider to be current poor marketing of the product, and poor after sales service. The modern day G is doubtless a good car from an aesthetic and performance point of view, however it has not been positioned as being a superior car, as the pre-1985 Alfa's were. Back then, even the 33 saw extensive TV advertising, and the 33 is not readily seen today as a classic Alfa. The Sprints were popular as well.....

Nowadays the new Alfa's have to compete against so many other brands, with largely only the Alfa badge to promote and market the car. The new cars do definite justice to the Alfa name and badge, however I don't think you can meaningfully compare today with the early 80's heydays for Alfa in South Africa. Back then I think there was more corporate care about the car overall, as opposed to the profit levels that the company could derive. Now it's mainly all about the money, money, money....
 

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No I don't.
If it has an Alfa badge on it then I like it. I am wired that way.

I enjoy driving my brother's MiTo just as much as I enjoy driving my GT.
I will hopefully also have an older Alfa to drive some day.
 
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