[scrgdk]

Hi Guys,

My wife drives a Honda Jazz 1.5 CVT.
The purge valve packed up earlier this year.
Since this is "never seen before problem" according to Honda (who could not find the problem), I could only get a second hand unit.
Now the problem is this unit has now packed up (3 month wait for the part :wow.
Now my thing is, why does this unit pack up so much, I believe (from google) that this is just there to recirculate fuel vapors in the tank and put it back into the throttle body.
I can't find another car with one similar to it or any by passes that I can do either.
From my digging it seems that the solenoid that is meant to be giving air is not working and cutting off air at the throttle body.
Is there ANYONE here that can please give me some insight into it I will be extremely grateful.

 

[scrgdk]

Nobody???

 

[Gertie]

Nope, sorry man. My wife drives a Honda Insight, but that is about as much as I know.

 

[alfanatic2]

Nope, sorry man. My wife drives a Honda Insight, but that is about as much as I know.

:vs_lol:

 

[Ian Lusso]

Steven can you answer the following questions:

How many times has the purge valve failed?
What does the car do when the purge valve is faulty? Just the engine light that's on, or is the idle eratic? (need to know if the valve is stuck open or closed)
How does it fail? mechanically or electrically? (It has a solenoid operating a mechanical valve. Solenoid could fail or the valve could be stuck.)

Electrical failure could be due to a fault in the circuit or the solenoid going faulty. Lets first assume the solenoid is faulty. Always remember this though: Second hand electrical parts are just as good as the parts you removed from your car, they can be in the same condition and they can pack up at any time. If ever you fit a second hand part, also buy the new part because believe me, you will need it. No economy in that.

Mechanical failure could be due to wear, corrosion of metal parts or gumming up of valves due to condensation, especially on vapour systems. Fuel additives will more easily vapourise and gum up an evapourative system so it could be due to the addition of fuel additives. Or it could just be that your unit failed because it was old, and the second hand unit failed because it was old too.

Here are fault finding pages for you to try: DTC Troubleshooting: P0443 (92) (R18A: M/T)

and this one: Purge valve, how it works, symptoms, problems, testing

Check the solenoid first either using power from the car battery or as they show, using a 9V battery. Clicking means it works. If it doesn't click while on the car then it is a circuit fault on the car. If it clicks and you can blow through it and it closes when you disconnect the battery then the valve is working. Or use a vacuum pump to check as they show, if you have one.

 

[scrgdk]

The main identifier is the lack of idling. It will not hold and idle. Was firstly assumed to be a ICV but that was ruled out very quickly (swopped with a working one). Now the funny thing is, it did this 4 days ago, the very next day I drove it to work. All I needed to do was take a blast down the road with the car and it was 100% again. When you come to a stop it will "judder" and not keep the idle and eventually just stall. It would not even idle in N or P. Some times (with the old one) it would not even allow the car to start unless my foot was flat on the gas, I held it there then drove off with it like that.
The reason for the 2nd hand one was because of the long wait. I did order one, but knowing Honda they probably didn't (had the same problem with my air con switch in the car, was a 2 month wait, after I checked up "sorry sir nobody ordered one", so I again bought a 2nd hand one).
I dug around the net and came across those pages as well Ian, thanks.
I will do the tests to find out why it is not working, electrical or not.
I was wondering though, does teh carbon filter box need to be cleaned, ever?

 

[Ian Lusso]

Activated carbon never needs cleaning or replacing and even if it did, it would not cause the system to fail. The activated carbon just acts like a sponge, absorbing and holding onto the vapours until saturated, then getting rid of it into the intake system.

If the valve is stuck it could be sprayed with a solvent such as electrical cleaner or carb cleaner, then apply Q20 liberally. If the solenoid has failed then you need to replace it. Do you have the old one to test? PM9 battery and feel if the solenoid clicks. Switch polarity as well to ensure that you have the correct voltage applied to the correct terminals.

 

[scrgdk]

Sadly not, the old one is at the mackie that did the job, if not in the bin already.

 

[Ian Lusso]

Activated carbon never needs cleaning or replacing and even if it did, it would not cause the system to fail. The activated carbon just acts like a sponge, absorbing and holding onto the vapours until saturated, then getting rid of it into the intake system.

If the valve is stuck it could be sprayed with a solvent such as electrical cleaner or carb cleaner, then apply Q20 liberally. If the solenoid has failed then you need to replace it. Do you have the old one to test? PM9 battery and feel if the solenoid clicks. Switch polarity as well to ensure that you have the correct voltage applied to the correct terminals.

 

[El 4 Romeo]

Activated carbon never needs cleaning or replacing and even if it did, it would not cause the system to fail. The activated carbon just acts like a sponge, absorbing and holding onto the vapours until saturated, then getting rid of it into the intake system.

If the valve is stuck it could be sprayed with a solvent such as electrical cleaner or carb cleaner, then apply Q20 liberally. If the solenoid has failed then you need to replace it. Do you have the old one to test? PM9 battery and feel if the solenoid clicks. Switch polarity as well to ensure that you have the correct voltage applied to the correct terminals.

Lol. In Xzibit voice: "You like replies, right? 'Cos I replied to your reply with a reply and then I replied to my own reply with a reply!" :biglaugh:

 

[Ian Lusso]

Then you will need to remove, clean and test the one on the car. If no luck, then sadly you have to wait it out for the dealers to get the right part to you.

 

[Ian Lusso]

Steven, also, most purge valve related issues that cause poor engine running are with regard to the system failing open and causing lean running or vacuum leaks. If you could somehow either pinch one of the pipes from the purge valve to the manifold then you could prevent this vacuum and at least have the car running well, even if the ecu light still remains on. While you wait for the new part of course.

 

[pompeypete]

Just playing devils advocate here but if you've replaced the purge valve and the replacement packed up that would suggest one of two things to me.

1. Something is causing the purge valve to fail, which would be the root cause of your problem.
2. There isn't anything wrong with the purge valve and the problem is something else.

Since Honda claim to have never seen this before it seems unlikely that the replacement would also be faulty, unless it is a more common issue than they are letting on.

I've had a few Honda's and would suggest the idling issue could be many things.

1. Spark plugs.
2. Clogged EGR.
3. Vacuum leak.
4. Throttle position sensor (disconnect the cable from the throttle body and see if it idles properly then).
5. Dirty throttle body or a fault with the throttle body.
6. Vacuum leak somewhere.
7. Crap battery.

It's also worth pulling the DTC codes if you haven't already.

You have to bear in mind it's quite a little engine and quite high tech, so it does rely on everything being "right" somewhat if you know what I mean.

 

[scrgdk]

1. Spark plugs. - fairly new
2. Clogged EGR. - checked and was not dirty, but cleaned anyway
3. Vacuum leak. - none present (tested)
4. Throttle position sensor (disconnect the cable from the throttle body and see if it idles properly then). - tested, no problem
5. Dirty throttle body or a fault with the throttle body. - tested, no problem and cleaned
6. Vacuum leak somewhere. - See number 3
7. Crap battery. - less than a year old.

However I manged to get my buddy out who did the job for me and he could not find a problem with the valve, however while troubleshooting we did find anything problem that could be the culprit. A stretched acc cable! He made some adjustments so that it can drive. But the car is a freaken irritation now. So I picked up the phone and called the local Midas and Autozone, agents only. Sure no problem, the part id only R980 ex vat. Great, I'll take one! "Oh,sorry sit, we have a 21 working day wait for this part" :furious::furious:

Anyway the car is booked to go to a Brake Super Service on Thursday for the cable to be removed and replaced.

I swear that it is easier to find freaken 4C parts in SA than Honda Jazz parts!!!!

 

[Ian Lusso]

Steven just by chance the other day I saw a vehicle ahead of me with cable and pipe fitting repairs. They charge around R200 per repair if the cable isn't worn beyond, and can even make up a cable cheaply of required. But I didn't take a picture so I now don't have the number... aperbag:

 

[scrgdk]

So about this, I totally forgot to post the outcome.
Wife took the car to my buddy's dads place. The mechanic looked it and fiddled with it for about 2 mins. Car sorted.
Total job was 4 mins. and free of charge, even though my wife insisted on paying for wasting their time.
Reason: cable was fitted incorrectly :furious: needless to say she went and bought a pair of shoes with the money lol!
She was relieved and I was :furious:

 

[Gertie]

Hahaha - good to hear

 

[Master Paul]

Seriously

 

[scrgdk]

Seriously

Yes, seriously...
I mean freaken seriously!