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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I just succumbed to years of Alfa lusting & got my first, a 1998 GTV for £250 spares or repair, though with 5 months MOT.

The first major problem to attack is the lack of brake servo assist accompanied by a loud sucking noise.

The sucking only occurs when I apply the brakes so my conclusion is that the diaphragm in the servo is split & lettting air into the vacuum part. This is backed up by the slight drop in engine revs. The brakes do work, though unassisted.

Just wanted to ask on the off chance, is there a simple fix to this before I start pulling things apart ?

The ABS & handbrake fault lights are on. Would this be a seperate problem or associated with the servo ?
 

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Hello,

I just succumbed to years of Alfa lusting & got my first, a 1998 GTV for £250 spares or repair, though with 5 months MOT.

The first major problem to attack is the lack of brake servo assist accompanied by a loud sucking noise.

The sucking only occurs when I apply the brakes so my conclusion is that the diaphragm in the servo is split & lettting air into the vacuum part. This is backed up by the slight drop in engine revs. The brakes do work, though unassisted.

Just wanted to ask on the off chance, is there a simple fix to this before I start pulling things apart ?

The ABS & handbrake fault lights are on. Would this be a seperate problem or associated with the servo ?
Obviously check ascociated pipework to the servo before assuming its an internal fault but i guess you already did that, the airbag light is usually set off by the pre tensioner connectors under each seat, once the light is set it has to be put on a diagnostic to re set, so take the seats out, check that the connectors are connected and that there are no breaks in the wiring, then get it reset, the handbrake warning could be due to low hydraulic level in the brake resevoir (the light doubles up for this purpose) or the handbrake warning light switch onthe handbrake lever could be at fault.
 

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Sounds exactly like the problem I had, http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-gtv-and-916-spider/229111-brake-servo-vacuum-leak.html (that was on an alloy topped ph1, if yours is a plastic topped ph2 then the intake plenum is different)

I can see a quote from a specialist hitting £1K for this job, is that why it was spares or repair?

You will need the workshop manual if you dont already have it : fileape » download

Oh, and dont look at the procedure for LHD by mistake,, it will make you cry (is about 2 paragraphs, instead of 20+ pages)

Doable, just have a large swear jar handy :lol:

ETA the Alfa part you need is 60571358, which is Bosch part http://seekpart24.com/bosch/brake-booster-204125431
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks folks, I thought it was going to be a bit of a slog. The brake master cylinder & servo are hidden under a lot of gubbins. However, having just got rid of a Renault Espace 2.2 DCi which was the most unreliable, unmaintainable car I have ever had I'm quite up for it. Not sure how how long the enthusiasm will last though.

I'll let you know how I get on. If I get time & don't get too annoyed I'll try & write down a procedure for the forum.

Chris
 

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Had to get the servo replaced on my last gtv. Took it to a local garage who did the job but "never again" was his parting comment. Steering column out, pedal box out dash pushed up and working head into the footwell charged me recon servo plus 13 hours labour
 

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I had to do a brake servo in my 156 and the symptoms were very much like you described.

No lights on the dash though. Until all was said and done, my car left the mechanics with an airbag light. Thank you muchly, mechanic. (I cleared it with AlfaDiag 2 years later very easily though... lol)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Got the manual, a replacement servo for £45 from a breakers & a new jar of coffee.

Started last night for 2 hours. Undid master cylinder, left in situ though as I'll only be putting it back in later. Also I couldn't release the vacumm pipe from the servo, I'll try removing the servo with it attached. About 45 minutes to that point.

Finished removing dash this evening after another 3 hours. Had to make a steering wheel removal tool - simply a bit of angle iron drilled with two holes to take some M8 bolts. I should have drilled & tapped a hole in the middle to take a bigger bolt to push on the column end. Being lazy I just shimmed the two M8s so they had enough engagement that they did not strip the threads of the tool holes in the steering wheel, but still wound in enough to push on the column. It worked quite well.

A selection of flat bladed scredrivers has so far done the other jobs of the "special tools" mentioned in the manual.

The only major deviation from the manual was that I left the steering column in place as I could not remove the pin in the column adjustment locking mechanism. With a bit of wigggling of the dash I was able to squeeze the ignition barrel through the column aperture in the dash. The thin gauge steel sheet used in making the dash has some unpleasant edges you need to be careful of.

Next tasks are

1) Remove steering column - Try to get the pin out of the column adjustment mechanism with the better access I have now. If I can't I'll remove the column mounting bar.

2) Remove Pedal Box.

3) Remove servo.

4) Simply reassemble :rolleyes:

I intend to test the replacement servo before instaling it as I don't particularly want to do this again soon.

So so far approx 5 1/2 hours & only drawn blood once.
 

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A valiant effort from a brave fellow surely this must be one of the most time consuming pain in the ar5e jobs ever. Just think on lesser cars it would be a 2 hour job under the bonnet.

Keep it up good luck

Neil
 

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Good job :D I made exactly the same "custom" steering wheel removal tool :) Getting the dash out seems like it should be the hardest bit, though its actually one of the easiest!

I managed to dislodge the plug on the elusive and mysterious N14 wiper control module whilst moving the fuse box frame around. This has a brown multiconnector going in the top, but you really cant see much of it as its tucked hard against the right hand side of the footwell. If the wipers dont work (but the squirters do) then you`ve done this too.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Thanks for the support folks. Nice to know there are others out there who have been through it.

Anyway - Update

Thursday night - 5 1/2 hours, got in to work early so I could leave at 5.00 pm. & make use of the fact it's dry & little ones are with their mum.

Removed sterring column by removing mounting frame. No major issues with this.

Removed pedal assembly containing servo, again came out quite easily. It was a quick job to change the servo. Total time to this point was about 7 hours over three nights, with the only major problem being the column adjustment cam pin removal (or not).

Faffed about abit finding a replacement bulb for my halogen lamp which took up about 1/2 hour. Needed this for warmth as well as light as I'm doing the job outside.

Putting the pedal assembly in was a different matter to it's removal. It was half way through this bit that I started swearing properly.

The assembly is mounted to the bulkhead by three small studs. The accessability to the nuts is a bit difficult & requires two socket extension bars, though not a problem when dismantling. I could not hold the assembly in place square and put the washers/nuts on. I decided to hold the assembly in place by first bolting on the plate that attaches the top of the pedal assembly to the large scuttle beam, thus holding the assembly for me giving me two free hands. Unfortunately there is a rubber seal that seals the cut out in the bulkhead for the master cylinder to pass through. This made getting the holes to line a bit of a bast*rd. Got there eventually, if you're going to do this job it may be worth seeing if you can attach the plate to the top of the pedal assy before you put it in, though it may create difficulties getting the pedal asy into the footwell.

Next problem was getting the washers/nuts on the studs. I lost a fair few washers down the back of the carpet at this point. Had to get the gaffer tape out at this point to hold the nuts in the socket as the access is too tight to hand place the nuts on the studs. For this I hold a small piece of tape across the socket & insert the nut into the socket. This usually holds it sufficiently until I need to withdraw the socket. Eventually got there after about two hours of cursing.

Gave up at 11.00 as it was very quiet & I was still swearing alot. Dropped something in the dark whilst clearing up & forgot to go back for it after putting everything away. Next morning found my Alfa key missing. Nothing lying where I dropped something, so now I probably need to change the locks as I don't know who may have a key :cry: Currently making do with not refitting the steering wheel, though I suppose if someone is that keen to nick it the could use a large pair of mole grips to steer. :eek:


Friday evening - 2 hours. Refitted master cylinder & remade did all engine bay connectors. Bled brakes. Plugged in instrument binnacle & started her up to see if servo worked before I got any further. It did :).

Retired for the evening somewhat less stressed, though still miffed about the lost key, though I have a spare.


This morning - 2 hours whilst the little ones were doing stuff with their mum.

Re-installed column. Fairly straight forward. All holes aligned with the help of a large screwdrive in some other holes jiggling them about.

Replaced dash - made sure all loom connections were dangling out of the correct aperature in the dash before rebolting dash in place.

Replaced "A" post covers & dash end covers.

Reinstalled Passenger airbag & glove box.

Finished as I had to retrieve the little ones. Probably about two hours left to do, thought I'm not re-attaching steering wheel until I find the key or purchase large steering lock (more expense).


Like Ian said "Doable, just have a large swear jar handy" - I've never used so much gaffer tape for holding things.

Total time so far approx 15 1/2 hours.



Next major tasks after this little "project"

1) Troubleshoot the ABS light. Handbrake light is due to there not being any visible wire to the switch anywhere in it's vicinity.:confused:

2) Replace rear Left wishbone - currently a V6 one.

3) Injector light randomly appearing - hopefully this is just a bit of loose wiring as it sometimes disappears after a bit of wire wiggling under the bonnet.

4) Tidy interior

5) Tidy exterior

I might take it for an MOT before I do too much more incase there is a real show stopper lurking.
 

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i just want to say that the fuel injection light made me suffer for years but i found out the problem. it is inside the car under the dash and behind the fuse box. conected to the fuel pedal, a conector that leads to well i cant remeber the name but it looks like a servo. it about 7" long and black. they told me it would cost £400 pounds plus the work. it turned out to be lose conector. give it a try. now i have to fix my brakes. lol:thumbs:
 

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great.. I'm really not looking forward to this job.. but it's gonna go 'pop' sooner or later..

can you stick up a photo of the homemade steering column tool
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Ooops, didn't get around to updating this.

I completed the task another 1 1/2 hours later. The Steering column went back in without any major hassle. The dash was nice & simple as well.

To sum up, not the worst job I've every had to do on a car, just one of the more time consuming. Go into it psyched up for it to take a few days/evenings of spare time & you'll feel a bit better about it.

There are no real tricky bits other than getting the pedal box back in place. Leaving the master cylinder in situ removes the need to move the engine about !! though this may be different on a later version.

I'll stick a pic of the tool on here later.

The injector light fixed itself after giving the car it's first good beasting. It may have been where it had been laid up for a while. We'll see what happens. Currently grounded after I discovered a front ball joint is loose even though the pinch bolt is done up tight. I have yet to investigate further, still I'll save that for another thread.

Chris
 

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great.. I'm really not looking forward to this job.. but it's gonna go 'pop' sooner or later..

can you stick up a photo of the homemade steering column tool
Heres my "aerospace precision, laser cut" effort :lol:

M8 bolts about 70mm apart. Screw the bolts into the 2 threaded bits in the wheel, either side of the main nut, then run the free nuts down each bolt to push the wheel off the splines.

Needed suspiciously little effort compared to the heaving and swearing I tried before (loosened it up, obviously.. :lol:)
 

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Heres my "aerospace precision, laser cut" effort :lol:

M8 bolts about 70mm apart. Screw the bolts into the 2 threaded bits in the wheel, either side of the main nut, then run the free nuts down each bolt to push the wheel off the splines.

Needed suspiciously little effort compared to the heaving and swearing I tried before (loosened it up, obviously.. :lol:)
it's precision enough.. cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #16
....& you don't get a bloody nose when the steering wheel finally lets go like you do when you have both feet pushing on the dash.
 

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Nutcase...

....& you don't get a bloody nose when the steering wheel finally lets go like you do when you have both feet pushing on the dash.
...you're supposed to leave the nut on the end of the thread to prevent the steering wheel hitting you smack in the face!:rolleyes:

Clive
 

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compatible servos

Hi, all,

I've got the same problem with my '96 GTV turbo. I'm in Japan, so finding the parts on their version of ebay is a bit tough, since it's all in Japanese writing. However, I can easily see the model types that the parts available are from, so I wonder if a 156 or a 155 booster is the same part as a GTV's?

Also, my car is LHD. How does this affect the task at hand?

Cheers, I think I'll like it here!
 

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Hi, all,

I've got the same problem with my '96 GTV turbo. I'm in Japan, so finding the parts on their version of ebay is a bit tough, since it's all in Japanese writing. However, I can easily see the model types that the parts available are from, so I wonder if a 156 or a 155 booster is the same part as a GTV's?

Also, my car is LHD. How does this affect the task at hand?

Cheers, I think I'll like it here!
I think eper only lists p/n for the booster + master cylinder as one item, and its different between the 155/156/gtv/etc but looking at pictures on ebay the 156 servo looks suspiciously similar to the gtv, but the master cylinder is different (though this is the same as some other fiat/alfas)
The good news however that on lhd cars, the procedure in the manual is about 2 paragraphs, rather than 20 pages for rhd.. no need to remove half the car, its all accessible from the engine bay, apart from having to unclip the linkage in the footwell, few nuts, job jobbed..
 
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