Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

With all the Covid stuff I bought a 2006 GT 3.2 V6 on eBay and had it delivered to my place. Never saw it. I was going to drive it to my mechanic to get a RWC (MOT test in the UK) and it would not start.

Battery was dead, jumped it, no luck. Tried it with new battery, no luck. Tried it with new battery and another jump lead from negative direct to engine (in case an earth strap was no good), no luck. Zero ohms from battery negative to pretty much anywhere on the engine. I still have not driven it at all. It did start when first delivered about a week ago (but slow-ish crank and it stopped a few seconds after firing but then started and ran OK when I moved it a few metres).

Symptoms are that it will crank but very slowly and not for long. The starter sounds fine, no rattling noise after the crank. Solenoid seems fine, it does crank but very slowly (it is not that the motor spins freely or the solenoid just clicks with no spin). The jump start lead is fairly thin but the negative does get warm after a couple of cranks.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Andrew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
571 Posts
Was there anything in the advert that would indicate the car hadn't been used for some time or was having troubles before you bought it?

It might be worth getting the fault codes read off the car. From what you describe it would appear to power on but just not start and run, so a scan tool should be able to read the ECU.

I guess the usual things to check for fuel, spark etc. The starters and alternators are difficult to replace on the V6 so hopefully its not one of those things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Hi,

No surprises there were no indicated troubles. Pretty certain it was not used for a while.

I can't get it to a mechanic but am getting a dongle to read the codes with the Torque App.

The thing that makes me think it is not ECU is that it doesn't spin and then not start, but it really doesn't spin. That tells me it is before the ECU has a chance to kick in. But I don't know these ones well enough to know.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,328 Posts
if it's been sitting a long time, maybe bad fuel, or blocked fuel lines ?
Or fuel cut-off triggered ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,786 Posts
Check the main positive from battery to starter for cleanliness etc. If it’s turning too slow to fire it is not ECU side or fuelling. But either starter,battery, main starter wiring or engine is seizing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Check the main positive from battery to starter for cleanliness etc. If it’s turning too slow to fire it is not ECU side or fuelling. But either starter,battery, main starter wiring or engine is seizing.
Thanks,
I've tested the negative side and will check the positive side, like you said. Looks good at battery, didn't check at the starter end.

I was afraid someone was going to say engine seizing. I would guess that it would eventually stop cranking so hope that is not the case. It isn't making bad noises so might not be the problem. Sounded OK and smooth for the 3 minutes I heard it running. Trying not to think about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,786 Posts
Thanks,
I've tested the negative side and will check the positive side, like you said. Looks good at battery, didn't check at the starter end.

I was afraid someone was going to say engine seizing. I would guess that it would eventually stop cranking so hope that is not the case. It isn't making bad noises so might not be the problem. Sounded OK and smooth for the 3 minutes I heard it running. Trying not to think about it.
You can always spanner the crank bolt and see how it turns over by hand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Good luck with the dongle but as far as I know Multiecuscan is needed, I've never been able to connect my 156 up to any generic OBDII reading app... I have a laptop that exists to be plugged into my car!


I'm ready to be corrected however!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
571 Posts
Surely it can't be seized if it was running for a short time to move around last week? Unless the car has had catastrophic failure since then. Was there anything you did to the car in the time since then. Any cleaning, or anything.

Maybe there is a fault with the immobiliser system in the car? Any noise from throttle body when key in the second position?

How about a video of you sitting in the drivers seat trying to start the car. So we can hear noises and lights on dash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,786 Posts
It’s always a possibility the engine is seizing given it turns over slowly even with new battery. Admittedly need to check cables and starter etc first. At this point anything fuelling,ignition or immobiliser can be discounted as engine is turning slow.

I bought an Audi A3 dirt cheap as it had engine issues,turned very slowly I managed to get it running with a brand new battery. Turned out it had been boiled which caused a plastic baffle in sump to melt blocking pick up,turbo shaft snapped. Engine very tight to spin by hand surprisingly however I could still get the Damn thing to actually fire up.

not saying it is a seizing engine but it’s certainly an avenue to check along with the other starting elements
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
This is not looking good and I hope i am wrong.

This is a picture of the coolant overflow bottle with sludge on the cap and a high tide mark inside, and a second showing what was on the high tide. Coolant itself looks good inside the bottle and it is clear. The oil is also clear (for 10,000k after last change).

The stuff at the high tide feels like thick grease (not engine oil) and comes out dark brown. There is also a bit of pink there from the coolant.

Do you think it has a blown head gasket, or just 100,000km of wear and nothing to worry about?

$$$ to replace in Australia, any ideas?


938292


938293
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
567 Posts
It obviously needs the cooling system cleaned out, at least. I've seen red coolant in association with nasty looking messes in other engine cooling systems (way more often than with green fluid). I can't say that this is 'a thing' and not just random coincidence, but I've seen it often enough to put me off ever using red coolant (but never mix the different coloured coolants...!!).

But, I'd be surprised if that has anything to do with why the engine is only cranking slowly. I suspect it isn't firing because it just isn't cranking fast enough, hopefully nothing worse and / or hard to diagnose (but no promises...).

Your description of the symptoms has me suspecting poor electrical contacts in the starter solenoid (i.e. the largish contact plates which are closed by the magnetic solenoid switch to make the circuit that connects the starter motor itself to the battery high current +).

Over time these contact plates can become burnt (due to minor arcing, but repeated many times over years), and / or become accreted with crap (general dirt, products of arcing, oxidation, etc). Either way the resistance slowly rises until not enough current reaches the starter motor windings and it can only crank the engine lazily.

I've found that the quality of electrical contact with old / worn / damaged solenoid plates can become erratic, sometimes being OK, but at other times almost no current gets through. So, sometimes the engine will crank with enthusiasm but other times less so, and maybe barely at all.

Regards,
John..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
571 Posts
From my experience, looking in quite a few V6 engine bays the expansion tanks seem to get quite dirty. It's just part of the deal with having one of these.

You can buy a new tank. The 3.2's use the same tank as all the other 147's, 156's (excluding 2.5) and GT's so its easy to come across. Found it on a Australian parts website for $66.50.

The car probably does need a bit of work to get it recommissioned if it has not been used and had much work done to it recently. I would suggest cambelt, water pump, spark plugs, coolant, oil, brake fluid etc. It may be worth having a compression check done just to check it's all relatively good. That's if you can get it turning over and starting reliably. Put some good gas in it, 95 octane or above, some sort of fuel system cleaner/injector cleaner should not do any harm as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
In general the 3.2 does not need so much persuasion as it has a (easy start function), cant remember the name:). it would inject fuel in all cylinders on start up.

If it had been running and have no ignition at all now, it sounds like fuel pressure.
To check the fuel pressure, you can easily check with a small screwdriver and a rag activating the check valve at the end of the fuel rail. ignition on, remove the plastic cap and press the valve. fuel should squirt out.

Use a hard wired jumper to start the car then you can eliminate the battery problem. A 60Ah battery will only spin the engine full speed for 10s before it will slow down.(is my experience).
Try looking at the Maxi fuses on top of the battery, they can snap inside the plastic cap, making all kinds of weird behaviours.

Missing spark is a bit unlikely as it has individual coils and the engine have been running.
Sparks is a bit more work as you need to remove the intake. i strongly recommend getting the correct click clamp tool, releasing the clamps for all the rubber piping.
when the spark plugs are out i would try turning the engine manually. If you do it with the spark plugs in, it can be hard to determine the resistance of the engine because of the compression.
i believe the crank pully bolt is a 42mm(not sure) you can access it with the wheels all the way to the right in the right wheel arch.

Cam pos. sensor is located behind/under the throttle house.

for OBD, MultiscanECU is essential, you can be lucky with some dongles and some apps, "torque" is not always the best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,912 Posts
If this was my car, the next thing I would do is remove the sparkplugs and turn the engine over with a freshly charged battery. If it was the headgasket causing the engine to not turn over due to water in the bore, it will be ejected out of the spark port.

Then I would turn the engine over by hand. is it easy to turn? It should be with the plugs out. If it is, then the issue is likely to be power or earth. If it is still hard to turn then remove the Auxilery belt, the Alternators tend to randomly seize on Italian cars but check all pullies and bearings. If the engine is still hard to turn with the Aux belt off, something is going on in the engine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigSud
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top