Check that battery!

 

Re-map, we are always having diesels in with this kind of problem after a re-map with this kind of problem, I would get the car back to Red Dot and ask them to “turn it down” or take it off.

Ned

 

I had the 'Get Engine Checked' message and the associated limp mode scenario a week after my map done three times in one journey (It was after full throttle, no throttle, full throttle whilst over taking lines of cars)

Two days later it went out and has been fine since

I called Augusto and he said to keep an eye on it and if it did it again to pop in and they'd sort it for me :thumbs:

So in short Max.... give Augusto a ring and I'm sure he'll sort it for you

 

as above... go and see RD and get them to turn down the boost slightly...

 

Might be that the vanes are slightly sticking in the turbo, causing more boost than the ECU is asking for on spool up. So the remap has 'caused it', but only due to an existing physical condition. You could sort the problem by turning down the boost or cleaning the turbo.

Just a thought, have you plugged your EGR valve yet? You want to do this soon IMO, as oil from turbo and soot from the exhaust don't mix too well inside the inlet manifold. Stupid design

 

Sorry to hear about your problems Max, hope you get it sorted ok!

Just a thought, have you plugged your EGR valve yet? You want to do this soon IMO, as oil from turbo and soot from the exhaust don't mix too well inside the inlet manifold. Stupid design

Pud I think I've heard this one before (possibly Ned at Autolusso). Is this a big job to do?

 

Pud I think I've heard this one before (possibly Ned at Autolusso). Is this a big job to do?

No not really, well not on the 10v it isn't. Not sure about the 16v but it can't be that much different.

 

Thanks for the replies chaps.

The battery is OK Nev.

Pud, is it really a good idea to plug the EGR valve? It must perform a function which means there would be other side effects, surely? I understand and wondered about the sticking vanes thing, is it a big job to pull the turbo apart to check/clean?

Nomes, I spoke to Augusto some weeks back, he suggested it might be the overboost sensor - I had this changed by Jamie Porter last Friday and there has been one MCSF since. Maybe it has settled down now?

OA and AL, obviously, turning the boost down is an option - but the remap is not particularly radical, the 1.9 will easily go to 200bhp and 280ft-lbs according to Red Dot. It's a bit frustrating to say the least.

Would the diagnostics actually tell me how much the overboost is, or just that it is overboosting? If the amount of overboost won't do any damage, is there any way of making the ECU think everything is OK?

I don't really understand the relationship between the ECU and the 'Map', are they separate entities that talk to each other, or is the Map inside the ECU?

Also, I'm wondering why everything was hunky dory for a whole 3 weeks, only then did I start getting MSCF's?

 

it might be the overboost sensor - I had this changed by Jamie Porter last Friday and there has been one MCSF since.?

was that the map sensor or overboost module?

 

Same happened to mine before the remap but it came back a few weeks after the remap when I thought I had it cured. Diagnosis over the internet is dodgy at best so I can't say whether my problems are the same as yours at all with the JTD.

I went through a new EGR, boost sensor, throttle body, suspected sticking vanes, turbo overhaul and in the end we nailed it down as turbo overboost from the boost coming up too quick and just tripping the boost sensor out before the controls could reign it in. I got the remappers back to bring the turbo in earlier and slower to avoid this pressure spike. They found another couple of bhp as well but it was a lot smoother and delivered nicer from lower down. Since having the map adjusted it hasn't happened again and that was a good year ago now.

Most decent size remappers should adjust the map for free, RedDot are a reputable firm, give them a bell and see if they can adjust the map for you.

 

Good info there Dibbster :thumbs:

 

Diagnosing over the internet without an error code reader machine isn't the best way of finding out what's up with your car but it worked for me and diagnosing it as overboost could have saved me 9 months of back & forth to the main dealer - still, got a load of new bits and sensors under warranty though.

 

Thanks Dibby.

Does the warning signal and going-into-limp mode happen immediately the 'fault' occurs? Or can there be a delay? I'm just trying to pin it down to exactly the driving conditions when the fault occurs, in an effort to aid the diagnosis.

With mine, it never happens when I am giving it the full beans. It seems to happen when I am floating along in a biggish gear at around 2K rpm, feathering the throttle.

 

Yeah, mine happened cruising along at relatively low revs, on the motorway in 5th and 6th, about to overtake something and at the very start of the build-up: beeeep beeeeep, and limp mode rather than at high revs when I was giving it some. 90% of the time it was instant, error flashing up on the dash and limp mode straight away but occasionally I would get the error and no limp mode, restarting the car would cure the limp mode but I would get the error message one the dash and the ECU light on for 4/5 restarts then the dash light would go out and everything wuld look fine. Maybe for a couple of hours, maybe it would last a couple of weeks before coming back.

Error codes I got were all pointing to a boost sensor failure, 'sensor at +5V' or something like that. The turbo recon made it a lot worse as it would spin up a lot more freely. We had it on the live sensor data and there was a clear spike in the boost pressure when you touch the throttle and it would just send the boost sensor over the edge into error mode, couldn't get the error to happen in the garage but we could see the boost was getting close to the maximum.

Get yours to a garage with a code reader, have a look at the live data from the sensors and take it from there, give Red Dot a bell and run it past them, they should adjust the map for free if it wasn't done too long ago. Mine was done by Angel Tuning and they were spot on with coming back and adjusting the map for free, Red Dot are a good reputable firm here too and I haven't heard anyone grumbling about being left out in the cold by them when things don't go quite to plan.

 

Hmm, sounds about the same as with mine Dibby. Maybe the 3 week gap between the remap and the onset of problems was my lusty use of the remap freeing up the turbo a bit and tipping the sensor over the edge?

My understanding is that the amount of boost generated wouldn't do any damage. Is there anyway of resetting the ECU so that the threshold at which it starts complaining and causing the error, is lifted?

I guess it really is a trip to Red Dot to get it analysed in real time and the remap tweaked a little if necessary.

They definitely said they had previously remapped these engines to 200bhp though, with more torque than mine, too, without problems. Infact, there was a guy there at the remap day with us who had a 1.9JTDm GT who got 200 horses with no problem. How come?

 

I guess it really is a trip to Red Dot to get it analysed in real time and the remap tweaked a little if necessary.

Hallelujah



Actually Chris had the same problem after having his GT remapped and RD sorted it for him

 

Why are you posting here and not on the phone to Red Dot

 

Just phoned them, appointment made for Monday morning! They're closer to me too now, in Enfield :thumbs:

Are you gonna stick a cork in it now?

 

You won't lose the remap, they'll likely trim it to feed in smoother. Mine was a complete success after they adjusted it, took out a lot of the surge and oooomph and delivered the power smoother and from lower down, plus there was more ultimate power at the top end. Less of a crazy surge of power, more like an all round power boost, it revs a lot free'er and the power keeps building, building, building as I feed the throttle in now rather than plant yer foot and when the turbo kicks, hang on for dear life.

I was so impressed I wrote to Angel Tuning, thanked them for being so quick to come back and adjust it and suggested they use whatever they did to mine as their standard map because it felt nicer to drive.

Now stop playing on t'internet and get on the phone!

 

Job done! How many horses and torques have you got then, Dibby?

 

I live near Harlow (M11), they're moving from Watford to Enfield, this weekend, I think. Only 30mins away now!

 

Oh I know where you live mate ..... Mwah Ha Ha Ha



Ah right... I didn't know that RD were moving !!

 

RD are teaming up with another company....

And yup, they will be based in Enfield as of this weekend.

 

RD are teaming up with another company....

who?????????

 

Went out this morning in the 156, the car was fine for first 20 mins normal driving, then i got on to the dual carriage way, accelerated in
4th gear , and the motor control failure light as come on, my car as gone into limp mode now , no power but i got the car home.

Do i need to disconnect the battery to reset it.

 

If it's anything like mine, no. Just stopping the engine and restarting seems to get out of limp home mode. The warning signal will remain for a few starts but will disappear if the fault doesn't recur.

DO have it checked out on a diagnostic system though, to see what is causing the MCSF - then you can work out what you're going to do about it.

I'm at Red Dot tomorrow to see if mine can be resloved.

 

Thanks VO2Max, i parked the car up yesterday after the problem, then went to try my car 3 hours later, and the car was not in limp mode, but the MCSF light was on, i then got back left the car for about an hour before driving, and the MCSF light had gone off if it comes on again i'll sort it out, wonder if it was because it was so cold yesterday , and it bought the error up.

 

Best to get it to a garage who can read the error codes out, a car won't go into limp mode because it's cold.

 

The overboost problem is caused by the overheating solenoid valve..that contorls the vacuum regulator!!!

It cost about 70Euro and it is located on the radiator/fan plastic...look for the small vacuum pipes that go from the turbo to it....

Also spray some WD40 on the vacuum regulator which moves the vanes on the turbo.

 

^^^ I had the solenoid done on mine kgb as part of a turbo overhaul and the overhaul made the problem worse, the turbo would spin up quicker and trip out more.

 

if that is the case, then check your remap

..like you did.

The new range of pierbourg solenoids is a lot worse compared to the old one...they are a lot slower in terms of reactions.

 

It happened before the map and after changing the EGR, throttle body and boost sensor we thought we had it sorted, gave it a few months to be sure and had the remap done, it lasted a couple more months and went again, got the turbo overhauled and it made it worse. Got the map adjusted and no problems at all.

It hasn't reappeared for a good year or so but with winter approaching and the beep every morning to warn there might be ice on the road, it's the same beep as the limp mode, and the same beep as the death cough when the cambelt snapped. It scares the life out of me every morning.
'Nooooooo, not again damn you to hell Alfa Romeoooo' .... 'Oh I see, it might be frosty, my bad!'

 

Hi, I am also having the dreaded MCSF on startup, no problems when driving, no loss of power. This happened in Feb this year car cut out mid journey and wouldn't restart, I had a new Crnkshaft sensor fitted, garage told me (MCSF) was due to Lambda sensors, he also replaced these, fine for a week, I have had 5 Diag's, NO FAULT FOUND! Still shows up on startup.