[Tjalle]

This is meant to be a thread for the- possibel - mechanical development of Tonale.

Probably they had a go ahead of Project beginning 2019. I.e. resources incl. money was approved based on a pre-study. Likely project timing is then 30 month - SOP july 1 2021.

INFO is that T will be based on current JEEP Compass architecture- which is good and bad.

Good: reasonabel timing and investments.

Bad: without a major redesign, T will not be good enough for me.

Crucial is - to me - rear suspension, which - if Alfa handling - will need Alfa rear suspension.

I believe they can get away with an improved front McPherson.

To be competitive they need one 300+ bhp engine.

Compass does have a 9-speed AUTO, which, probably, will be OK.

A 6-speed manual is needed - I know nothing about availability.

AWD is a given - probably also FWD - at least for low torque application.

Later - probably - there will be various types of electrified versions.

Current architecture does not include aluminium structure/chassis. Hopefully - at least - IRS will be aluminium.

Currently I give it a 50% chance, that I will buy.

 

[symon]

I hope they rethink the name.

It is too close to toenail.

 

[cue2]

There’s a thread for that https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/general-alfa-discussion/1176689-alfa-romeo-tonale-new-small-suv-launch-at-geneva-14.html
The lead time for engineering a new mould for a badge is relatively short. The name change from Milano to Giulietta was after the brochure was designed.
https://www.motor1.com/news/18977/alfa-romeo-giulietta-revealed/

 

[Tjalle]

Target vehicle for Stelvio was X3/X4. I believe target vehicle for T will be X2.

X2 35i - the top of the line - 4 pot 300+bhp and goodies, came out about a year after X2 launch. Alfa will, probably, do the same.

 

[cue2]

The Stelvio was designed to be lightweight. I hope there’s a similar engineering stretch for the Tonale.

 

[Tjalle]

Obviously Stelvio was to be a statement - hence "all out resources" incl. lightweight materials and 3/4 of a Ferrari engine.

It is unlikely Tonale will have same priority- but one can always hope :rotate:

 

[TI-ger boz]

6 speed manual would be nice and could tempt me to buy one. Sadly all recent models, 4C, Giulia, Stelvio, are only auto and hybrids are nearly always auto (I can't think of a manual hybrid at the moment). That's why I'm hanging on to my Giulietta until it falls apart. Then I'll probably look for a classic Alfa.

 

[Tjalle]

TI - have you tried a modern AUTO - like e.g. ZF-8 - with paddles and stick. I thought paddles would be great, but ended up with using the stick. You will fast get spoiled not to have a clutch to bother with.

Only problem is to remember what gear I am using, and since Stelvio Quadrifoglio does it better than me - a 510 bhp 3/4 Ferrari engine never let you down - I stopped using MANUAL.

 

[Ralf S.]

Yes.. all the new cars are auto-boxed these days.

It apparently helps emissions (the car's brains do the Greta thing better than mere mortals can) although in the old days, automatics used to burn more benzina since they were just very clunky and only had 3 forward speeds or something.

If the Tonale is an Alfa'd Jeep Renegade/Compass then it will not be quite so "premium" as Giulvio but the trick then is for Alfa to decide how to price it. They can either admit/remember that it is actually Jeep-Evo... and so therefore must cost £20k....or they can spend extra to get rid of the more mundane/functional Renegade/Compass parts, replace them with more shiny and then charge £30k for it.

Sadly Alfa's historical (pre-Sergio) track record suggests that they will forget it is actually Jeep-Evo.. imagine that it is shiny, shiny rather than being *actually* shiny, shiny... and charge £30k for it. The new fella (Big Lad?) has to hold his nerve and price it on its merits.


Ralf S.

 

[Tjalle]

Ralf, the platform/architecture is - obviously - not top class, but given time and money it should be possibel to make a vehicle with good handling/performance - although not full Giulia/Stelvio class.

Since I believe they are shooting at BMW X2, price should (need to) be close to it. Interior and electronics/gizmos are not architecture related.

 

[cue2]

Stelvio seats seem crammed in on research property.

 

[Tjalle]

If they could install Stelvio seats, that would be a good beginning of upgrade.

 

[TI-ger boz]

TI - have you tried a modern AUTO - like e.g. ZF-8 - with paddles and stick. I thought paddles would be great, but ended up with using the stick. You will fast get spoiled not to have a clutch to bother with.

Only problem is to remember what gear I am using, and since Stelvio Quadrifoglio does it better than me - a 510 bhp 3/4 Ferrari engine never let you down - I stopped using MANUAL.

My last G was a TCT. It was ok really but I really prefer manual. I've ridden in cars with the ZF-8 and it's ok. The missus and a couple of advanced driving assessors have commented that I change gear smoother than the auto. Just personal preference. I suppose I'll have to succumb to modern fads eventually.

Having 510 bhp is an advantage as you're rarely short of power. Most of the people I teach advanced driving to have less than 200 bhp to hand and it's a case of showing when auto is best and when to make the most of manual mode.

 

[Tjalle]

TI, if smooth gearshifts is your preference, you have 4 modes in a QF - from ultrasmooth to "slam-in". However I believe Tonale will not have all of them, but very probably the ultrasmooth=economy.

With a 510 bhp twin turbo Ferrari engine and an extremely well adapted ZF-8 you are NEVER short of power.

 

[Ralf S.]

Ralf, the platform/architecture is - obviously - not top class, but given time and money it should be possibel to make a vehicle with good handling/performance - although not full Giulia/Stelvio class.

Since I believe they are shooting at BMW X2, price should (need to) be close to it. Interior and electronics/gizmos are not architecture related.

I wouldn't personally get hung up on the 500X/L/Renegade architecture... usually it's the car magazines that bang on about it, since they want you to buy a VW Karoq instead anyway.

The platform I think has bits that were conceived for the Giulietta (actually Fiat Bravo) so it might not be all from the 2020's... but that's like saying if I fitted a spark plug from a Leyland Mini in my car, it makes my car "ancient".

Fiat invented modular architecture for car platforms so I'd be quite confident that the car will have all the important stuff (suspension mainly) designed to suit the Tonale, even if some parts like the heater was the same as fitted to the Fiat 127 or whatever. Turn the dial, it heats up the car... what's to change?

The main thing is that Alfa should resist the urge to cheapen it too much.. and if they can't resist themselves... then try very hard to not charge top money for it.

I'd say that Alfa probably needs to start shifting volume a bit more, even at the expense of profit per car sold. More cars out there is just good for the brand image, the dealers, the factories, owners and prospective owners... and if they sell more they'll make the same profit as if they sold less with more margin. Not sure why Alfa doesn't ever quite throw the kitchen sink at what they think is their "volume" model.

Ralf S.

 

[Pud237]

Ralf, the platform/architecture is - obviously - not top class, but given time and money it should be possibel to make a vehicle with good handling/performance - although not full Giulia/Stelvio class.

Since I believe they are shooting at BMW X2, price should (need to) be close to it. Interior and electronics/gizmos are not architecture related.

Is the X2 built on the 1 series / Mini platform with transverse engine and FWD/AWD setup?

 

[cue2]

Yes, the £45000 X2 is based on the Mini Clubfoot.

 

[TI-ger boz]

TI, if smooth gearshifts is your preference, you have 4 modes in a QF - from ultrasmooth to "slam-in". However I believe Tonale will not have all of them, but very probably the ultrasmooth=economy.

With a 510 bhp twin turbo Ferrari engine and an extremely well adapted ZF-8 you are NEVER short of power.

It's not just the smoothness, it's the control. I want to decide a gear not leave it up to something that will change gear part way round a corner. I know the ZF-8 can be incredibly smooth but I would still keep driving it in manual mode to get the control I want so I might as well have something with a manual box.

Don't get me wrong, I really do like the ZF-8 box. It's just personal preference that I like a proper stick shift.

 

[cue2]

I’m a convert to the auto in the Stelvio. I just have to remember to apply the handbrake after parking my wife’s car!

 

[Pud237]

I'd love to have a go in a Guilia QV manual. Just a shame they are all left-hookers. Not sure if I'd rather live with a left hooker or live with an auto.