Alfa Romeo Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
592 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As the title says, i did try the search function but i got zero results so please no sarky comments, i want something removeable but dont want to hack the bumper too much (i know thats inevitable)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
I fitted a westfalia detachable to mine and it's very discrete. Will try and dig out some photos. Unless down at bumper level it's very hard to spot. You can modify the light plug holder as well to make it completely hidden if required.

Must warn you though it's a pig of a job! Lots of drilling into the chassis and boot floor and full boot interior has to come out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Still got to fit mine sitting in the garage since I bought it new a few years ago. SW btw.

I went for a Westfalia 306 356 + Jaeger wiring loom set 748799 + Brink fold-able plastic bracket for the socket (needs grinding off the standard bracket welded rather in sight and finding a less visible spot to bolt the fold-able on).

One thing I still haven’t figured out though, is whether to follow the supplied cut-out template for the bumper. It advices to cut 2 holes. Or alternatively leave the small top opening away.

From the few 159’s I’ve seen, which had it fitted with just the larger bottom access, I noticed that you may have a cleaner look, but the bumper is then little deformed by the vertical square tube tucked away. My point is that if you haven’t been aware before, you might keep seeing this once you do know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Sidenote: the towbar is capable up to 1800 Kg tow load, but Alfa unfortunately didn’t arrange certification higher than 1500 you’ll be restricted to. Not sure what it would involve to get an individual certification on your car, if possible.
 

·
Registered
Alfa 159 2.0 JTDm Lusso 6sp.
Joined
·
6,458 Posts
In this country it's illegal to tow anything heavier than your car anyway (regardless of what it's stated max tow weight is) ....and since the 159 is much lighter than that the 1800kg mentioned, the limit would be wasted anyway. The 1800kg limit is a bit like your 135mpg (or whatever it is) claimed top speed....it's telling you what the vehicle is capable of..not what you are legally allowed to do. The two big caravan clubs recommend no more than 85% of the cars quoted kerb weight to give your car a fighting chance of keeping control in adverse weather or hilly terrain.......good advise but it has no substance in law. However the miserable gits from VOSA will throw the book at you if they catch you towing at over 100 % of kerb weight. The other thing they are having a field day with at the moment is drivers who passed after Jan 97 not realising that their licences only entitle them to tow half of next to nothing until they go out and pass an additional test called the B+E. Many caravans and horse boxes being confiscated at the side of the road due to that one! I'm sales manager at a caravan dealer by the way!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leo_NL

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
However the miserable gits from VOSA will throw the book at you if they catch you towing at over 100 % of kerb weight.
To be fair it is a safety thing so I can see why they're doing it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
592 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
alfaitalia, reading from my logbook i have a mass in service that i assume is the weight of the car of 1725kg, and a technical permissable towable mass (braked) of 1500kg. 85% of 1725 gives 1460kg so am i right that i will be able to tow 1500 max or is there some more witchcraft involved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Thanks for the shared experience on maximum permitted and moreover advised rule of thumb.

Just ran a check of my license plate number on a Dutch website of caravanners linked to the Dutch Auhority for car registrations (RDW).

Mass on the road is 1615 Kg (G) which I understand is a gross mass: including all liquids, tooling and the driver (+100 Kg), correct?

Max. mass loaded (F.1=F.2) is 2090 Kg. So approx. 575 Kg can be carried to the car’s own nett mass.
Max. mass combination (F.3) isn’t listed on the car’s registration card, but accordingly to above source it is 3590 Kg. (minus 2090 is the 1500 as mentioned under max. towed load when braked, bullet O.1)

So in theory if the car is loaded to max., multiplied by the advised 85%, we could safely tow just under the limit of the towbar itself: 1776Kg. However, the “train weight” of the cobination is then 276 Kg. above limit. Deducting last from what we thought possible to tow, we’re back at the 1500 Kg as certified for.

It’s tricky, not only the legal aspects of it avoiding hefty fines when pulled over, or worse going beyond laws of physics. (Having driven semi-rigs in all kinds in the past, license BC+CE, I’ve developed great respect for dead mass once you go off a hill into a curved, narrow tunnel for instance.)

Again, many thanks for pointing out what’s advised by experience from the business!
 

·
Registered
Alfa 159 2.0 JTDm Lusso 6sp.
Joined
·
6,458 Posts
alfaitalia, reading from my logbook i have a mass in service that i assume is the weight of the car of 1725kg, and a technical permissable towable mass (braked) of 1500kg. 85% of 1725 gives 1460kg so am i right that i will be able to tow 1500 max or is there some more witchcraft involved.
Since you car weighs more the the max tow.....not all cars do …..you can legally tow the 1500 stated tow limit. The 85% "rule" is just advise.
 

·
Registered
Alfa 159 2.0 JTDm Lusso 6sp.
Joined
·
6,458 Posts
Thanks for the shared experience on maximum permitted and moreover advised rule of thumb.

Just ran a check of my license plate number on a Dutch website of caravanners linked to the Dutch Auhority for car registrations (RDW).

Mass on the road is 1615 Kg (G) which I understand is a gross mass: including all liquids, tooling and the driver (+100 Kg), correct?

Max. mass loaded (F.1=F.2) is 2090 Kg. So approx. 575 Kg can be carried to the car’s own nett mass.
Max. mass combination (F.3) isn’t listed on the car’s registration card, but accordingly to above source it is 3590 Kg. (minus 2090 is the 1500 as mentioned under max. towed load when braked, bullet O.1)

So in theory if the car is loaded to max., multiplied by the advised 85%, we could safely tow just under the limit of the towbar itself: 1776Kg. However, the “train weight” of the cobination is then 276 Kg. above limit. Deducting last from what we thought possible to tow, we’re back at the 1500 Kg as certified for.

It’s tricky, not only the legal aspects of it avoiding hefty fines when pulled over, or worse going beyond laws of physics. (Having driven semi-rigs in all kinds in the past, license BC+CE, I’ve developed great respect for dead mass once you go off a hill into a curved, narrow tunnel for instance.)

Again, many thanks for pointing out what’s advised by experience from the business!
Maybe over there but not here. You cant tow beyond the 1500kg max designed tow weight for the car (and why would you want to go beyond what ALFA says is the safe/manageable load limit for the car).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
592 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
alfaitalia as you deal with caravans daily could you answer me this simple question am i best going for 2 x 7 pin connection or 13 pin with a conversion lead either way?
 

·
Registered
Alfa 159 2.0 JTDm Lusso 6sp.
Joined
·
6,458 Posts
13 pin every time. Far better design. Most caravans built after about 2008 ish should have a 13pin plug anyway. If not you can easily wire the two 7 pin wires from the old plugs into a new single 13 pin one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
592 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
13 pin every time. Far better design. Most caravans built after about 2008 ish should have a 13pin plug anyway. If not you can easily wire the two 7 pin wires from the old plugs into a new single 13 pin one.
you obviously have never witnessed my electrician skills
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
In this country it's illegal to tow anything heavier than your car anyway (regardless of what it's stated max tow weight is) ....and since the 159 is much lighter than that the 1800kg mentioned, the limit would be wasted anyway. The 1800kg limit is a bit like your 135mpg (or whatever it is) claimed top speed....it's telling you what the vehicle is capable of..not what you are legally allowed to do. The two big caravan clubs recommend no more than 85% of the cars quoted kerb weight to give your car a fighting chance of keeping control in adverse weather or hilly terrain.......good advise but it has no substance in law. However the miserable gits from VOSA will throw the book at you if they catch you towing at over 100 % of kerb weight. The other thing they are having a field day with at the moment is drivers who passed after Jan 97 not realising that their licences only entitle them to tow half of next to nothing until they go out and pass an additional test called the B+E. Many caravans and horse boxes being confiscated at the side of the road due to that one! I'm sales manager at a caravan dealer by the way!
ummmm not sure you have that correct. You aren't limited to towing your tow vehicle's mass as a limit....your tow limit is whatever the manufacturer has rated your car to tow at (assuming you have the appropriate license), and the trailer you are towing must have a plated gross mass which is within that limit. I.e. the law doesn't care whether your trailer is empty or loaded, from a legal perspective the trailer weighs its maximum plated value
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
592 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Alfaitalia VOSA dont exist any more the have changed to DVSA now still mean nasty feckers though (HGV driver here)
 

·
Registered
Alfa 159 2.0 JTDm Lusso 6sp.
Joined
·
6,458 Posts
ummmm not sure you have that correct. You aren't limited to towing your tow vehicle's mass as a limit....your tow limit is whatever the manufacturer has rated your car to tow at (assuming you have the appropriate license), and the trailer you are towing must have a plated gross mass which is within that limit. I.e. the law doesn't care whether your trailer is empty or loaded, from a legal perspective the trailer weighs its maximum plated value
I'm afraid that is not correct....and that assumption is why many drivers are being prosecuted recently in a towing vehicle clampdown around here. They can get you on many things...including unsafe load...which carries a prison sentence!! We even had the Police in recently to make sure our customers comply and under stand the law. The max trailer tow weight is not what you are necessarily allowed to tow (at least if that quoted max tow weight is higher than the quoted kerb weight). That quoted weight is much like you handbooks quoted top speed....it tells you what the vehicle is capable of....not what you are legally allowed to do. Sorry officer my handbook says my cars will do 135mph...so I thought that would be ok!!

Regardless of the law, towing a caravan that weighs more than the car is just plain dangerous....especially in windy of hilly conditions...the dog should control the tail...not the other way around.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top