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which party?

  • overtly brexity ******** party (ukip, tories, farage, bnp)

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • overtly remain party (green, lib dems)

    Votes: 12 57.1%
  • labour fence sitting shambles

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • other

    Votes: 4 19.0%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
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I didn't vote, I think for the first time. Really fed up with the whole farcical system. Even at a local level, the busy bodies pushing their own agendas. Does my head in. Just let us get on with our lives.
Doesn't help with the media sticking microphones in front of absolutely anybody, for thirty milliseconds and expecting to get a balanced view, that even experts can't agree on.
 

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Conservatives got what they deserved.

To be honest, I am not entirely sure why we have 'party politics' in local elections, why does it matter who runs the local council? The decisions they make regarding local spending matter, but that isn't party political. Local councils don't have any sway with the national government, and the number of councils a party control doesn't affect national government. Local councils could be run in absence of party politics altogether.
 

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Tories and Labour lose hundreds of local council seats.
The votes lost to Tory and Labour went in the main to the LibDems and the Greens, both parties unambiguously committed to stopping Brexit.
Both (Tory and Labour) party leaders see this as a “clear message to “get on with Brexit” ".
:rant: :banghead: :rant:
 

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Later today I'll refer a link to a post in the old politics thread with another slant on history.


Back to my original point, for now. Why aren't the tories dead and buried? Worst government ever?
"Later today I'll refer a link to a post in the old politics thread with another slant on history."

Please do! Because this particular take on political history is wrong.


But Labour's numbers are a joke. What numbers do you want to talk about? How many millions of manufacturing jobs were lost? How many tonnes of gold were ****ed away? How many people our bombs and tanks killed in Iraq? How many billions were borrowed and wasted in a period of high economic growth where we should have been paying down the debt? How few homes were built? How many millions of unskilled migrants were allowed to move into the country where so few homes were being built? How many millions of lifelong Labour voters that gave up on the party in Scotland? How many people trapped by an appalling system of tax credits with sky high marginal rates? Number of PFI agreements signed? Number of times we will have ended up paying for the same hospital? Number of asset classes inflated by Gordon Brown's "I saved the financial system" money printing? Number of extraordinary renditions? Number of interesting old cars scrapped at taxpayers' cost to further degrade our trade balance? And we were told things can only get better
 

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I didn't vote, I think for the first time. Really fed up with the whole farcical system. Even at a local level, the busy bodies pushing their own agendas. Does my head in. Just let us get on with our lives.
(Part 1) I may have missed your point but "agendas" is politics is about though, someone who who has an opinion and thinks that they can make a difference, who decides to stand on an agenda of some description.

(Part 2) Does this mean that you want to maintain the status quo at a local level? Are there no issues important to you where you live? Does nobody have the same, or similar, ideas as you?
 

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I was actually disappointed we had no independents to choose from.
It was the same here (Brighton), so I ended up spreading me three votes* in a traffic light array (Red, Orange, Green).
*I must admit to being surprised / confused at having three votes, I really don't remember having that before? It might just be my poor memory.

I guess that maybe now is not a good time to launch a political career (but perversely, probably a good time to launch one as well....)
 

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While I wouldn't argue that Brexit has been the major cause of the way voting has swung, I think it's masking other factors.

The current global warming hysteria will most likely have increased the Greens' share of the vote, while I suspect that the Lib Dems are in the process of reverting to their pre-Clegg level of support.
 

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While I wouldn't argue that Brexit has been the major cause of the way voting has swung, I think it's masking other factors.

The current global warming hysteria will most likely have increased the Greens' share of the vote, while I suspect that the Lib Dems are in the process of reverting to their pre-Clegg level of support.
Hysteria - "ungovernable emotional excess".
I think that's totally inaccurate in describing current concerns about environmental issues.
And it's not just 'global warming', but pollution, deforestation and destruction of natural habitats which have led to extinction of multiple species.
I would say it's more a tragically late and overdue realisation of the damage we've done to the eco-system in so many ways, and how bad things will get if major changes aren't made now.
 

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Hysteria - "ungovernable emotional excess".
I think that's totally inaccurate in describing current concerns about environmental issues.
And it's not just 'global warming', but pollution, deforestation and destruction of natural habitats which have led to extinction of multiple species.
I would say it's more a tragically late and overdue realisation of the damage we've done to the eco-system in so many ways, and how bad things will get if major changes aren't made now.
Very good point.

I think the way that "CO2 driven Climate Change" has been made THE topic in the last decade - which as a topic allows some room for counter claims on historical patterns/mini-ice-ages and even outright denial of the evidence given the limited (relative) data available - some/many of us (but definitely the MSM) have reduced focus on the other areas of Environmentalism such as pointed out above (pollution, deforestation and over-population).

These are far more scientifically measurable categories of impact (we can satellite image a shrinking rainforest or a plastic-island in the ocean extremely accurately) AND we can - very importantly - show progress relating to our actions on these too. The relatively recent focus on single use plastic and the reaction in a short space of time in areas like plastic straw use and disposable single use plastics/carrier bags is a great example.

For those who want to argue that Climate Change is an unalterable, non-human impact based geothermal natural cycle (rightly or wrongly) they can fight the long game on that issue while the rest of us just get on and ensure that the Human Race doesn't trash the planet regardless of the climate.

It's likely that if we address our rampant consumption of the earths natural (non-fossil-fuel) resources (or at least manage it in a sustainable way by lowering impact and lessening demand over time) then the climate science will be positively impacted too.
 

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Very good point.

I think the way that "CO2 driven Climate Change" has been made THE topic in the last decade - which as a topic allows some room for counter claims on historical patterns/mini-ice-ages and even outright denial of the evidence given the limited (relative) data available - some/many of us (but definitely the MSM) have reduced focus on the other areas of Environmentalism such as pointed out above (pollution, deforestation and over-population).

These are far more scientifically measurable categories of impact (we can satellite image a shrinking rainforest or a plastic-island in the ocean extremely accurately) AND we can - very importantly - show progress relating to our actions on these too. The relatively recent focus on single use plastic and the reaction in a short space of time in areas like plastic straw use and disposable single use plastics/carrier bags is a great example.

For those who want to argue that Climate Change is an unalterable, non-human impact based geothermal natural cycle (rightly or wrongly) they can fight the long game on that issue while the rest of us just get on and ensure that the Human Race doesn't trash the planet regardless of the climate.

It's likely that if we address our rampant consumption of the earths natural (non-fossil-fuel) resources (or at least manage it in a sustainable way by lowering impact and lessening demand over time) then the climate science will be positively impacted too.
It is not just about the rampant consumption of resources, it is also about the wastage. The redundancy is staggering. Akin to the residue left when extracting gold from rock. So much wastage!

And we are not trying to feed the world. We are just feeding the profits of huge corporations.

If we want a world in which we all thrive, then we have to recognise, populations need to be in balance with the environment.

“Africa”, as an African said to me years ago, “ Is one big baby farm”.

Well it is time we stopped treating it as a nursery, where once out of nappies the decide the easy option is to emigrate to Europe, rather than build a sustainable society in their own countries. Whilst they continue to bang out the next brood.
 

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It's a bit colonialism revisited though isn't it? Us telling Africa what they must do to solve their problems while we can't deal with our own? It's like judging India and China for having what amounts to an industrial/technical revolution which causes a lot of pollution because we've already had ours.
 

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In the China/India case I'd say yeah, but they have the option of hindsight, where they can look where we went wrong regarding pollution and should implement their growing industrial influence with an eye on the past mistakes of industrial nations, not just getting to where we were 120 years ago or so from direct copying having learnt nothing. Progress is learning from past mistakes, whomever committed them, and not repeating them.
 

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It's a bit colonialism revisited though isn't it? Us telling Africa what they must do to solve their problems while we can't deal with our own? It's like judging India and China for having what amounts to an industrial/technical revolution which causes a lot of pollution because we've already had ours.
No, it’s not. If we continue to dine out on the past, we should still be accusing every German of being responsible for the Holocaust.

Each generation must accept responsibility for its own failures. Even were I around at the time of slavery, the only way I would be involved would be as a slave.

Blair’s apologised for the slave trade. No one as yet has apologised for the Highland Clearances, the inhumanity inflicted upon the Irish - the forced transportation to America of countless thousands, the land seizures where thousands were forced out of East Anglia to go to the North, to the mills and factories, whilst farms were cleared for sheep.

I am not my fathers keeper, and the crimes he and others committed, lie in their graves.

I feel no need to apologise for things I am not and never could be responsible for. The vast majority of what is wrong today, was done without my consent.

If Britain is to turn its back on Europe, then I would argue, it should turn its back on the vast majority of the rest of the world who continue to see Britain, and me, as owing them debt which can never be discharged.

My culture, if my ancestry is to be believed, goes back hundreds of years. But I, unlike those who recently stepped off a boat, do not choose to dictate how I should view, the third world, in the way that they perceive to be the only way to atone for our colonial crimes.

Those who want to save the third world, should do if from within the third world.
 

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I never said you should feel personally responsible for the mistakes of the past.
 

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I never said you should feel personally responsible for the mistakes of the past.
No one alive should feel personally responsible for mistakes made before they were born, let alone centuries ago.

Barbarism was not wholly a white mans hobby. Many of the practices carried out in Africa and elsewhere, were home grown and continue to this day.
 
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