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which party?

  • overtly brexity ******** party (ukip, tories, farage, bnp)

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • overtly remain party (green, lib dems)

    Votes: 12 57.1%
  • labour fence sitting shambles

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • other

    Votes: 4 19.0%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
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I'm so bored of Brexit that for next Thursday I shall be voting for the candidate from the local residents association who is campaigning solely on the topic of opposing the expansion of Sandown Park racecourse.

I don't feel massively emotional about that topic either way - but I do understand it and I can form an opinion on it. That'll do for me.

If we get as far as voting for an MEP I shall go resoundingly remain via either Lib Dems or Greens.

Any decision on how I vote at a future GE will have to wait until I can make any sort of head or tail out of what the various parties are actually standing for nowadays*. The things I care about (NHS, Education, Social care/equality) have been ignored for the last 3 years in deference to something which I (and many others) previously had very little interest in either way - i.e. Our EU membership.

*Although I can already say i won't be voting for the Tories
 

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Discussion Starter #4
We have had a couple of Tories (one wearing a leather cowboy hat) campaigning round our streets regularly. They post leaflets but don't knock. I'm motivated, if they did knock, to ask them if they're ashamed of what they're party has done to this country in the name of a) austerity; and b) internal party priorities.
Haven't had the chance...

Labour came knocking last night about 7pm (which just wasn't welcome). Still, a nice, earnest kid asked if I was willing to tell her my intentions. I muttered something and shut the door. I'd had 2 beers while watching United, and, frankly, could not be arsed to question the eff out of Corbyn's pathetic rain dancing.



I'm strongly considering voting Green on Tuesday, or Lib Dem - simply on the Remain ticket. There's too much wrong with Labour at the moment. I realise my decision could let the Tories (or worse) in. That's my only motivation to stick with Labour - not quite as **** as the Tories or Farage.
 

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From the Guardian , a poll ; “Among Labour voters, 72 percent think the referendum should never have been held, while only 18 percent said it was the right thing to have done.

The poll also shows Nigel Farage’s new Euroskeptic Brexit Party performing well among Brits. In a national vote, the Brexit Party polls third with 17 percent of the vote, behind Labour on 33 percent and the Conservatives on 26 percent.

For the European Parliament election, the poll puts the Brexit Party joint first with the Labour Party, both with 28 percent of the vote, and double the level of support for the Conservatives (14 percent). The pro-Remain Change UK would receive just 7 percent of votes, according to the poll.”
 

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For once in as long as I remember I am not even bothering. They're all a load of ********. I really can't be arsed with any of it.

I'm going to watch David Attenborough chase seals up/off a cliff instead.
 

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This is a daft question - but can voting in the local election have any effect at all on Brexit politics?
 

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There's too much wrong with Labour at the moment. I realise my decision could let the Tories (or worse) in. That's my only motivation to stick with Labour - not quite as **** as the Tories or Farage.
I'm not sure how it has all come to this comrade, but sadly I'm in the same boat :grumpy:
 

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This is a daft question - but can voting in the local election have any effect at all on Brexit politics?
I imagine that the constituencies that voted leave and have UKIPPY candidates will cite their massive turnout as being the will of the people. Beyond that, I can't see any effect whatsoever.

Personally I'm in the same camp as Elvis and Fred. I will be voting purely because we have two kippers standing, neither of whom could even be arsed to make any sort of personal statement.
 

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This is a daft question - but can voting in the local election have any effect at all on Brexit politics?
If Labour and/or the Tories take an absolute pasting in these local elections, it could turn the party membership against the leadership and implement change from below. It is probably what needs to happen. I don't think Corbyn represents the typical UK social-democrat, May doesn't represent the typical Conservative voter, and probably the party which has drifted furthest from their roots are the Libdems, unless you take the modern definition of Liberal which appears to be basically a mild socialist dipped in green paint, they fit that profile exactly.

If you could vote for no government, that is what I'd vote for. We have a civil service to run the services which the state provides, and a Bank of England to manage monetary policy, what do we need a government for? Most of the governments I have lived through have by and large been a complete waste of time, money and oxygen.
 

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We have no elections in my area this year., therefore I shan't have to vote for someone who makes me despair.

My worry is that Sterzo's Theory of the Doomed Nature of Representative Democracy might be coming true. Here's the theory:

1. One person/one vote on every issue cannot work, because we can't be knowledgeable on every issue.
2. Government by elected representatives is therefore necessary.
3. Government by representatives ony works if the populace defers to their judgement.
4. Representative democracy is open to abuse if the reps ignore public opinion or work in their own interests.
5. A check to point 4 is accountability via press reporting, freedom of comment, including satire etc.
6. If press reporting is false, comment dishonest, and satire accepted as the truth, being a representative is a lousy job.
7. The level of disrepect for politicians, civil servants, "experts" and anyone with power or influence is at an all time high.
8. Therefore no-one with sense would choose to be a politician.
9. You'd expect from all this to see a dearth of leadership in parliament.

Has it happened? We had Blair, Brown, Haigh and Ashdown, love 'em or hate 'em, they were leaders. They were succeeded by David Cameron and his echoes, Ed Milliband and Nick Clegg. (All together now: "hard working families..."). They flopped limply out of sight and what have we got? May, Johnson, and Jeremy where-am-I?
 

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We have no elections in my area this year., therefore I shan't have to vote for someone who makes me despair.

My worry is that Sterzo's Theory of the Doomed Nature of Representative Democracy might be coming true. Here's the theory:

1. One person/one vote on every issue cannot work, because we can't be knowledgeable on every issue.
2. Government by elected representatives is therefore necessary.
3. Government by representatives ony works if the populace defers to their judgement.
4. Representative democracy is open to abuse if the reps ignore public opinion or work in their own interests.
5. A check to point 4 is accountability via press reporting, freedom of comment, including satire etc.
6. If press reporting is false, comment dishonest, and satire accepted as the truth, being a representative is a lousy job.
7. The level of disrepect for politicians, civil servants, "experts" and anyone with power or influence is at an all time high.
8. Therefore no-one with sense would choose to be a politician.
9. You'd expect from all this to see a dearth of leadership in parliament.

Has it happened? We had Blair, Brown, Haigh and Ashdown, love 'em or hate 'em, they were leaders. They were succeeded by David Cameron and his echoes, Ed Milliband and Nick Clegg. (All together now: "hard working families..."). They flopped limply out of sight and what have we got? May, Johnson, and Jeremy where-am-I?


Good post, but who the hell is Haigh??

You surely didn't mean Will.I Am Hague :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If Labour and/or the Tories take an absolute pasting in these local elections, it could turn the party membership against the leadership and implement change from below. It is probably what needs to happen. I don't think Corbyn represents the typical UK social-democrat, May doesn't represent the typical Conservative voter, and probably the party which has drifted furthest from their roots are the Libdems, unless you take the modern definition of Liberal which appears to be basically a mild socialist dipped in green paint, they fit that profile exactly.

If you could vote for no government, that is what I'd vote for. We have a civil service to run the services which the state provides, and a Bank of England to manage monetary policy, what do we need a government for? Most of the governments I have lived through have by and large been a complete waste of time, money and oxygen.

If there were any sense, justice or coherent thought in 'society' the tories would be in the bin....forever. The opprobrium attached to the Lib Dems after the coalition / tuition fees thing should be a mere blip in comparison to what the tories deserve to endure. They have ruined this country economically and culturally and they should be permanently held to account. I hope the glue of self-interest fades enough to enable them to splinter into hideous factions, and so that the decent people in there (must be some) realise that their eternal soul isn't a price they wish to pay to spend more time among the ranks of Mogg et al.


Corbyn is a joke. An absolute sham. The sooner folk realise that the better.


My main point in responding was regarding the civil service. The way it works is that the elected nut jobs come in with IDEAS which the civil service attempt to implement. Removing the representative nutjobs might solve one thing but it is like double entry bookkeeping - there is a balance somewhere. Either that is zero progress - good or bad, or you start having civil servants having IDEAS. That's just as bad as politicians. :cigar:
 

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If there were any sense, justice or coherent thought in 'society' the tories would be in the bin....forever.
Do you not think this is part of why democracy fails? Because you can't trust people to vote for the party whose policies they agree with? Instead they will refuse to vote for a party for the next 50 years - regardless of whether their policies take a complete u-turn - because when they were a teenager Labour created the 3-day week, or Maggie destroyed the mining industry?

I get that you can suggest from experience their policies will always be in favour of the already favoured. But it worries me that voting becomes tribal, not considered.

My parents are the same as you, but in the opposite direction because they're older. They remember Labour almost destroying them when they were in their twenties. They remember having to default on a mortgage which was for a total value of £1000 (that's a low monthly repayment these days!) and live in a caravan in their parents back garden. So they've voted Tory religiously at every opportunity since to stop it happening again, despite the Tory policies being of no benefit to them whatsoever.
 

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Sorry chaps but a vote for Labour, even in local elections, will be claimed as a vote for 'getting on with Brexit'. I don't care what Jeremy or Seumas claim, they are Brexiteers and hard Brexiteers at that! This 'ambiguous' position is no more than a fig-leaf to keep the Parliamentary Labour party together until the deed is done, stop any more defection to the TIG or Lib-Dems!. A vote for Labour is a vote for a Tory Brexit. I cannot and will not vote Labour, they are dead to me after this. I'll be voting Lib-Dem or Green instead.
 

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Having said what I put above, I realise a certain hypocrisy because I would never countenance a vote for something like UKIP. But then I consider them a one policy party with that policy being hatred. Maybe SiF feels the same about the Tories.

Incidentally, does anyone know the background to the name 'Tory'? I was reading a historical fiction book recently which implied that it started as a perjorative term used only by their opponents, but I've been unable to find more information.
 
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