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Discussion Starter #1
I bought a car in the UK from a dealer, not a private seller.
On that car I had a warranty with a third party company.
2 months after purchase the car developed an oil leak for which the warranty
contributed but did not pay in full leaving me with a bill of some £400.00.
(The warranty only pays upto £25/hr labour - the garage charged £67/hr)

Question 1 Do I have a claim against the dealer for the difference??

Other facts in the case are -
The dealer, as part of the bargain, agreed to have the car that I bought
valeted - when I collected the car it had not been valeted and it was
verbally agreed that the cost of valeting would be met by myself and then
reimbused by the dealer at a later date.
He now refuses to pay me the £25 because he says that the car that I part
exchanged for the car that I bought from him later suffered a failed gearbox
which left him out of pocket by £800. (he actually only allowed £600 for my
car on the invoice anyway) He claims that they sold it at auction at a loss.
(He never at any time contacted me to tell me this before they sold the car
on)

When I threatened to take legal action against him to recover my £25 and
costs not met by the warranty claim he said that he would counter sue me for
the money he had lost on the deal.

Question 2. Can he do this?

[I will name the dealer at a later date, so that others will be aware of his practises, but don't want to jeapordise any chance of a claim by doing so at this stage]

SS
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R

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Discussion Starter #2
I would say you have no recompense re the oil leak but I'm amazed he won't give you your 25 quid back.
 
S

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Discussion Starter #3
There are also a number of other faults on the car, that have materialised since purchase, that I have not yet had fixed.
These being,
Water leak into passenger compartment.
Creaking Suspension.
Alarm is registering a setting fault.
Intermittent squealing brake
 
R

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Discussion Starter #4
I would imagine that the brakes would be put down to wear and tear, the alarm probably won't be covered as it's an accessory, the suspension is probably wear and tear but may be covered and the water leak - it depends whats causing it but it's probably the drainage channel from the sunroof has come adrift, assuming you have one that is!

These faults may not have been apparent at the time you bought the car so you can't expect the dealer to cough up. With regard to the warranty were you given a choice of claim limit, level of cover?
 

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:<hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Rapallo:
<strong>I would imagine that the brakes would be put down to wear and tear, the alarm probably won't be covered as it's an accessory, the suspension is probably wear and tear but may be covered and the water leak - it depends whats causing it but it's probably the drainage channel from the sunroof has come adrift, assuming you have one that is!

These faults may not have been apparent at the time you bought the car so you can't expect the dealer to cough up. With regard to the warranty were you given a choice of claim limit, level of cover?</strong><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spoken like a true car dealer wink
 

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Burn his showroom down in the middle of the night and let him keep his £25.

Ralf S.
 
W

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Discussion Starter #7
Think Raps right about the faults, you won't have a prayer now you've fallen out with him! He won't be able to sue you for money he lost on the deal, he's just bluffing!

You could try the small claims court to recover your losses but in my experience it will cost you more money for nothing :(

Perhaps get in touch with Trading Standards???

wrinx
 
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Discussion Starter #8
I mentioned the brakes not long after buying it - he told me it was down to new pads - It hasn't had new pads.

I asked if there were any advisories from the MOT - He told me 'none'. I just called the garage that did the mot and they gave an advisory for two worn tyres (which I had to replace two weeks after i bought it)

I am going to trading standards, Federation of motor traders,small claims court - (I'll risk losing the £80 that it costs). If i win I'll have the case in the local paper - that'll do his business the world of good.

I've joined the Alfa Romeo owners club so I can go to the next meeting and let everyone know what a **** he is.

I'm going to try to ruin him.
 
R

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Discussion Starter #9
The moral of the story is, do your homework and if you're not confident then get the car inspected. A used car is a used car, you can't expect perfection but a seller should always be honest.
 
R

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Discussion Starter #11
Is the dealer an Alfa specialist?

The car was not unroadworthy when it was sold, you may have a case against his 'lies' but it's his word against yours.
 

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dear me I'm agreeing with Rap again!
Caveat emptor rules as far as I'm concerned. I suggest that the only way you'll get this guy is if he made any statemnts as to the car's condition in writing. Otherwise don't bother persuing him through the courts. It'll just cost you money and aggro. Be careful in any statements or letters you write to trading standards or the press otherwise you might find yourself on the end of a lawsuit!
 
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Discussion Starter #13
If its only 80 quid to go through the small claims court then I'd do it. There's a chance you'd win, and a good chance that he won't bother showing up. Therefore, you'll win and he'll have his name slapped in the paper.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Word of warning:

Took a guy to the small claims court who messed up and damaged my car fitting tyres. By the end of it all I'd spent £400 and got nothing back. I won the case but spent the rest chasing him for payment with no luck.

Hopefully the receipt of a summons might scare the crap outta the guy you're in dispute with but I wouldn't be sure. As said earlier, its his word against yours, I had everything in writing from my opponent.

My guy didnt show up either but never saw his name in the paper???

wrinx
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Trading Standards take into account several things when someone complains about a car.

Firstly the cars age and mileage, also how much you paid for it. Then whether the cars faults should have been noticed by the dealer when the car was sold and whether the car was roadworthy. They only intervene in serious cases such as people selling clocked, written off, badly repaired cars or ones with fake MOTs or if people charge for work that hasn't been done.

The faults you have mentioned should have been noticed within 7 days of purchase and reported to the dealer, did you not check the tyres?

Did you know your gearbox on your old car was faulty, if so you should have told him. If not then he could make the same argument about your car. What I am saying is that a fault starts at a certain time, you can't expect a dealer to rebuild the car for you.

On the other hand if he's said the brakes were new and they aren't, if he said he'll give you £25 for the valet and he hasn't then he's wrong. But I doubt whether the case will get very far, Trading Standards will probably pay him a visit and check his stock and trade practises.

This is a very grey area. I try to prepare my cars properly, I use an independant Alfa specialist who's name is also on the line if the car is not right. If a car has a fault I tell the customer and write it on the receipt, some people prefer to fix their cars themselves. However what am I meant to do if a customer refuses to take out a warranty or opts for a cheap one and then the cambelt snaps in 2 months time 20000 miles ahead of schedule. **** all is what I can do!
 
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Discussion Starter #16
He's an independant Italian car 'specialist'

Basically he's lied to me right fromt he start - He's never returned a phone call since I bought the car. Ditto e-mail.

Re the tyres - I fell for the tyre blacking trick - I looked at two [The wrong two!] and 'cos they were good assumed that all the others were ok too 'cos they were all the same make etc. [wont make that mistake again]
When I picked it up I said 'were there any advisorys on the MOT' he said 'NO' Went to the garage where it was MOT'd today and there was an advisory for the tyres. so basically he lied right from before I even drove the car away.

I foolishly drove the car away even though the valet had not been completed - A clincher on the deal was as part of the deal he would get the valeter to re-trim the bumper trim. He has then messed me around for about 6-8 weeks before refudsing to pay for the valet.

I called within a few days and said that the rear brake was squealing - he said 'it had new pads and they'll bed in.'It definitely did not have new pads.
There are not excessively worn but they aint new. Lied again.

I was told that the warranty would follow the cars service schedule and not to worry because a service wasn't due for something like 8K miles - i was due for 12months having lapsed though - so I then had to service it.
there went another whopper.

I was not offered a choice of plans etc - was told the car came with 12 months warranty - was just told its really good etc -The warranty blurb looks good. Until you try to claim and then find that they only pay £25/hr labour.

i know that the AROC wont care - but he was extolling the virtues of the AROC and suggested joining 'come along to the meets etc' So I just want to go along an spread the word as widely as possible.
'It is easier to keep 10 existing customers than generate one new customer!'
if what I say and do costs him just one sale then i'll have gone some way towards 'winning'

The only reason I havent named him yet is i want to exhaust all possibilities.
All I'll say is if anyone knows anyone who's thinking of buying from an 'italian car specialist' in Essex. BE CAREFUL!!
 

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Youre making a bad situation worse.
As someone pointed out earlier if you start telling everyone you meet about this 'Dodgy' dealer and it gets back to him he may have strong grounds for taking you to court.
From youre side of the story it seems this guy has lied on several occasions. The problem is you did nothing about it at the time. Should have refused to pay for the car when the valeting had not been done or asked the valeting cost to been knock off the price.
You did not check the service records and the conditions of the warranty before driving the car away.
From what you have told us it would seem this dealer is untrustworthy but i would be careful about what you say in this forum and to other Alfa owners.

Steve
 
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Discussion Starter #18
I realise that!
Thats why I'm holding off naming him - I cant afford to name him unless I can do him first for small claims and it's proved that he's in the wrong. I'm prepared to risk the money in small claims court.
The car has cost me £400 in bills already - before it's been in for god knows how much time to find the water leak. I'm expecting that by the end of it i'll be down nearly a grand.

I've started the procedings anyway now, got the details from Trading Standards - tomorrow i'm sending a recorded delivery letter detailing the faults and asking him to go halves an an independant inspection to determine liability.
If he refuses to go halves on the report I get one anyway, his refusal to co-operate with a reasonable request should go against him in small claims court.

""From youre side of the story it seems this guy has lied on several occasions. The problem is you did nothing about it at the time""

I've been trying to - Its hard to do something about it when someone wont even reply to a phone call asking then to call you.
By sending the letter recorded delivery he has to reply and deal with the accusations or risk that that goes against him too.

I'm more than happy to sit down, negotiate and come to a reasonable deal [I WANT TO] - I dont expect a second hand card to be as new but he wont even talk to me and discuss the matters!!

I'm not going to walk away and know that i've been done over and others are in for the same treatment.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
It wasn't per chance one of those god-awful Warranty Holdings warranties was it? They're hardly worth the paper they're written on.

(Good luck BTW.)
 
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Discussion Starter #20
As the man says in Pulp Fiction "Chill out honey-bunny"
These things happen and life goes on, make the best of a bad job otherwise its going to eat you up.
 
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