[teaforvicar]

I am not a great lover of induction kits however have always replaced the OEM air filter with a K&N one as a direct replacement into the existing airbox for various reasons of quality, filtration and air flow.

I know that some cars have MAF's that can be sensitive to this is this the case with the GTV V6 or will it be quite happy with a K&N or similar panel filter?

 

[Durty dog]

can of worms:lol:

 

[teaforvicar]

can of worms:lol:

Thought it might be, when I had an Impreza it also was the automotive equivalent of the "Princess Diana Enquiry" on various popular Scooby forums but to be fair I had K&N Panel filters in 3 Scoobies and never had an issue.

 

[msgtv]

***** specialist said dont fit one for the above reason but who's to know that the damage isn't caused by the owner applying too much oil?,anyway there are other induction options, cold air intake is the most logical and it doesn't have to use an oiled filter, re map afterwards for max benefit (plus exhaust mod) so noble motorsport tell me.

 

[itacarboy]

Ha ha, I feel as I should comment on this, as I have lived this with many alfas,

oiled filters will break the maf,
k&n are okish as they don't have alot of oil on them, but i would recommend against,

auto delta do a replacement panel for the Gtv and have had no issues with it,

but my personal favorite was fit an induction kit cone filter inside the standerd air box,
try and buy a cheap one as they are not oiled,

But the as you can tell oil is the killer so if it's oiled it's no good, I have killed a maf in a week with a pipercross panel filter

 

[Durty dog]

***** specialist said dont fit one for the above reason but who's to know that the damage isn't caused by the owner applying too much oil?,anyway there are other induction options, cold air intake is the most logical and it doesn't have to use an oiled filter, re map afterwards for max benefit (plus exhaust mod) so noble motorsport tell me.

can a cold air feed system use a dry filter i thought it was the oil that did the filtering?

 

[itacarboy]

Well depends what kind of dry filter it is,
and yes the oil does the filtering for very very small dust particals, but some filters are designed to be dry, like the cone filter I have used, so best bet is examine the filter before you buy,

 

[Durty dog]

do you think the shielded cone filters work better than the unshielded ones? just thinking about the engine heat getting into the filter.

 

[msgtv]

the shielded ones iv'e seen (a cone filter with an aluminium shroud, sort of like half a bucket, if i'm getting you right) fitted also have a flexi tube running from a cold air intake point, i would think that this set up is reasonably good once the car is under way and a decent amount of cold air is blown onto the filter, really would depend how much cold air it got though otherwise the warm under bonnet air would overwhelm it (IMHO).

 

[itacarboy]

Well I actually meant an open filter,

Fix the insert thAt goes down the standerd filter to the airbox lid, cut down a little,
then fix the cone filter to that.
Uses the standerd direct cold air feed, and more free flowing

 

[Durty dog]

i see that k&n have a new filter design K&N - If you are looking for an K&N Apollo Kits Universal Apollo CIS kit for all vehicles (RC-5052AB) click here K&N not cheap, another 50 quid and i could get a typhoon system.

 

[phil-gtv6]

Most of the reported AFM failures that started up the whole "K&N kills AFM" hysteria were due to the fact that for a long time K&N's website was linking to the same air filter for both the 2.0 and V6, and the filter it was linking and then sending out was that for the 2.0.
This looks the same as the V6 filter and goes in the V6 airbox fine but is about 8mm shorter and so people were fitting them thinking they had the correct one and then getting a knackered AFM due unfiltered air getting to the MAF then assuming "oiled filters are bad"

 

[itacarboy]

Well I can give hard proof that oil is no good for mafs

also what you described that k&n send out a 2.0 filter for a 3.0, that would still not explain how they naker 2.0 mafs,

personally after my experiences I would not advise any type of oiled filter,
also autodelta only sell dry filters, and I would say they know more than me about alfas

 

[msgtv]

Just pulled this off wiki, looks as though u could use a paper filter with no loss in efficiency, just needs to be big enough, does this explain the monumental size of the GTV airbox!, I intend to make my own cold air induction system, think i could utilise the original air box but as itacarboy said fit a freer flowing dry filter, move the induction point to the front of the car, straighten routing,smooth out the internals, lag the system etc, design time

Paper
Main article: Filter paper
Pleated paper filter elements are the nearly exclusive choice for automobile engine air cleaners, because they are efficient, easy to service, and cost-effective. The "paper" term is somewhat misleading, as the filter media are considerably different from papers used for writing or packaging, etc. There is a persistent belief amongst tuners, fomented by advertising for aftermarket non-paper replacement filters, that paper filters flow poorly and thus restrict engine performance. In fact, as long as a pleated-paper filter is sized appropriately for the airflow volumes encountered in a particular application, such filters present only trivial restriction to flow until the filter has become significantly clogged with dirt.

[edit] Foam
Oil-wetted polyurethane foam elements are used in some aftermarket replacement automobile air filters. Foam was in the past widely used in air cleaners on small engines on lawnmowers and other power equipment, but automotive-type paper filter elements have largely supplanted oil-wetted foam in these applications. Depending on the grade and thickness of foam employed, an oil-wetted foam filter element can offer minimal airflow restriction or very high dirt capacity, the latter property making foam filters a popular choice in off-road rallying and other motorsport applications where high levels of dust will be encountered.

[edit] Cotton
Oiled cotton gauze is employed in a small number of aftermarket automotive air filters marketed as high-performance items. In the past, cotton gauze saw limited use in original-equipment automotive air filters.

 

[itacarboy]

Basically msgtv you hit the nail on the head,

bassically I altered the cold air feed to the air box
fitted a free flow dry cotton filter inside original air box

idea is less induction noise, cold air=denser air= more preformance

 

[msgtv]

You missed the "= more oxygen" bit but i'll let you off , yeah i'm still waiting for noble motorsport to let me know what they have come up with re the best mods in their opinion, (they have emailed to say they are on the case), may use the original box modified or construct one from new, come on noble!!!.

 

[Cyclone]

Are Noble's really the best option for tuning the GTV? I've used them in the past but primarily for just use of their rolling road, they only ever mapped one of my cars once, a Cerbera 4.5 and this was because i had chaged ECU to an Emerald and they were distributor's / mapper's at the time. Best option is to review what others have done on here and try and get the opinion of the "expert independants".

Jules.

 

[msgtv]

I dont disagree with that, i'm just waiting to see what noble come up with as a starter, they offered to do some digging on my behalf for free so why not, they do have a good reputation being tuners for noble sports cars (though they're not related), they have also done a lot of work on my friends caterham which is now making an impressive 210bhp..did you have any problems with the work noble did for you though?
I've not seen a lot of info on this site regarding tuning, is it me just not looking in the right place on the forum??, i'm certainly asking around/using net etc to find what methods/options are out there (in general i'm looking to improve induction and exhaust by de-catting, freer flowing induction and then re map) also i want to dyno between each mod to get an idea of what works n what doesnt, can you recomend any tuners other than noble?.

 

[Durty dog]

i have now fitted a shielded dry cone filter with a cold feed from the bottom grill on the bumper, this mod with my cat back one box stainless exhaust system has really opened her up.

 

[msgtv]

Sounds good Limey, what difference has it made?, are you getting more low down torque, at about 3,500ish rpm i can feel my car start to pull, looking at the torque curve on my powergraph that matches nicely with peak torque of 137.5lbft (the all important .5!) at 3,750 rpm, what i'm saying is have the mods made it pull stronger lower down the rev range or higher up?..or both