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Discussion Starter #1
Right, need a little advice.

My 20v had an issue which I can't fathom.

It has just had all arms (upper and lower) changed (TRW), myele drop links, new top mount bracket drivers (well good used one as threads stripped on studs). TRW tie roads, TRW tre's so basically all the usual rattle and items that cause play have been changed.


I still have a bad judder which particularly happens if I take a left hand bend and left hand wheel hits some rough road, judder felt through steering and floor or car and it feels like the left hand Tyre looses grip or tries to steer a different direction (best description I can give). It can also happen in straight line or if right wheel hit by bump but nowhere near as bad and does't feel like grip about to be lost.

Corner test don't reveal any obv shock issues. If it was ARB bushes it would rattle more but not effect grip this way and doubt would get the bad judder through body.

Being all usual had been changed. I don't get any clicks on full lock, or any judder at all on acceleration in 6th from 40 (to test drive shafts), if a buckled wheel or uneven Tyre I'd surely feel all the time..... All bolts have been checked and double checked.

I am at a total loss as to where to look next. Anyone got any idea? My small list which is just a guess is; rack issue, wheel bearing, wheels (I do plan on swapping front to rear at some point when I find key but have had balance done and they balance to zero and look round/not buckled).

Any ideas welcomed as handling esp after all work is doing my box in. Arms needed done, play in both lower ball joints and bushes were starting to go, play in uppers and drop links, tre's, tie rod all had signs on way out as some ball joints easy to move. So all work was not in vain.... just want it back 100%

John
 
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Discussion Starter #2
It could just be the surface is poor all my Alfas have been a bit fussy about road surface think this is due to the set up or the car in general they tend to track more than most on poor surfaces but other than that don't know as you seem to have covered the usual suspects.
The only thing that could cause that is engine / gear box mounts tired or worn :confused:
 

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Driveshafts (half shaft with the cup and spider joint?). A variety of people have different symptoms at different times but see if that might be it?
 
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Discussion Starter #5
How do I check spider / cup?

It's defo not road surface as it didn't used to behave like this at all.

John
 

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no way to "check" without splitting it from the box.

Go out on the motorway and see if you get the judder when accelerating and at a given speed. It will gradually get worse. Mine kicked in at 85 or so and eventually started manifesting itself at 80 or so.

It was all fine and started up after I had some suspension work done! I am not saying that the garage have messed it up but it seems quite a coincidence that you and I had some suspension work done and it started up! Are they fragile or something?
 

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by the way, if it is the driveshaft, it's more than likely a bearing on the spider/tripod joint.

A lot of people recommend replacing the cup in which it sits but I only changed the tripod joint. I am not advocating you do the same thing but I took a risk and it paid off.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Like I said I can accelerate from 40 in 6th and don't seem to see any problems at all up to over 80 leptons per hour.

Also behaviour is same on power/off power, clutch down and would have thought a driveshaft issue would have been different depending on how it's loaded.

john
 
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Discussion Starter #9
by the way, if it is the driveshaft, it's more than likely a bearing on the spider/tripod joint.

A lot of people recommend replacing the cup in which it sits but I only changed the tripod joint. I am not advocating you do the same thing but I took a risk and it paid off.
I would inspect cup to see if any wear :) but not 100% convinced it is top of list

:)
 
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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Have you had 4 wheel alignment done ?
On way this afternoon, backs are spot on aligned, fronts need done but had close alignment after arms and drivers tre/tie rod changed until yesterday before I changed tre/tie rod on pass side which I did yesterday and issue persisted before and after that.

It doesn't feel alignment related it feels like something has play or not controlled right but will be aligned back of 4 today ATS do 4 wheel wireless laser alignment as offer of £31 at moment
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Had alignment - still there..

So will just discount thoughts one by one.... so far all that's left is drive shafts, wheel bearing, damper, top mount bearing and steering rack....

John
 

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It does sound like an alignment problem to me. A decent alignment place should be able to detect any play in wheel bearings or suspension joints. Failing that get it on a body shop jig - when my 156 was written off they jigged it and said they couldn't check the chassis alignment because there was too much play in the front ball joints (not enough for an MOT fail though).
 

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Thats a very perplexing problem you have there then, I would dismiss d/shaft as it isn't rumbling while accelerating, and it does not sound as if anything else is loose otherwise the alignment would have picked up on it, if the operator knew what he was doing, did he give you a before and after readout of the measurements ? Other than that, keep driving and see how it behaves. You could always try changing that wheel around with one of the others, never know, could be tyre or wheel related.
 

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And, also, jack up that wheel and give it some movement with your hands, spin it and listen for the rumbling, push and pull top and bottom, left to right, see if there is any play there, which might suggest wheel bearing.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Had a similar issue on my 147, horrible feeling judder through the car if you hit any bumps while cornering. Mine also occasionally clunks if going from lock to lock as well but after umpteen changes and absolutely no difference I've given up until something breaks.
 
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
It does sound like an alignment problem to me. A decent alignment place should be able to detect any play in wheel bearings or suspension joints. Failing that get it on a body shop jig - when my 156 was written off they jigged it and said they couldn't check the chassis alignment because there was too much play in the front ball joints (not enough for an MOT fail though).
Nah aligned to 0.00 and when he took it off and jiggled it then put it back on it was 0.01 and 0.02 back to 0.00 and tightened and was less than 0.005deg out when tightend off (impossible to adjust and most manual systems wouldn't get to 2 decimal places (never mind 3) and rears were good.

Car obv feels better but still has issue.

Doubt alignment is issue as car did drive fine and not been in accident all panel gaps are perfect and lower arms aligned spot on to bolt holes. Top strut brace went on to strut bolts fine (no jiggling and it's a very stiff brace), got a 4 point lower brace to go on (test fitted and aligned perfectly to all 4 bolts - 2x wishbone bolts ad 2x subframe bolts) an the fact it used to drive fine, not been in accident, and strut braces go on fine I'd guess cars alignment is spot on (if out a little a 4 point bottom and top with no adjustment would show something)... the fact new TRW arms (2weeks or less old) all round also make me think car alignment is as it should be. The fact it didn't move much after wheel was jiggled off ramp then popped back on makes me think rack is ok (an probs bearing - unless you can get more play vertically than front to rear).

When alignment was done the camber was up at upper level or just over 1.4 or 1.5 iirc is that about normal on age of car? Should I loosen bolts on strut brace and get weight off front and tighten upper and lower braces with any sag taken???

So it leaves me, dodgy shock, top mounts or wheel bearings or possible a little of all of the above... well that's my guesses anyway

Really not on driveshaft idea as would expect some change if from hard on power and off power or had clutch down on same bit of road.

Any more ideas or how to check very very welcome and i'll report back on any findings :)
 
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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
He forgot to print before but it was 3.4 and 0.5 (I know it wasn't as bad as 3.4 but just changed tie rod/tore evening before.

Doubt wheel as had issue for a while and it's been consistent on more than one Tyre and wheel has always balanced to zero and no obvious buckle when on balance machine. But when I find alloy lock key I will swap back to front as want to fit the h&r spacers on rear as well (problem same before and after spacer\brake change).

Steering wheel straight ahead at all speeds, slightly off on real heavy camber roads but happy it's a good job
 
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Discussion Starter #18
And, also, jack up that wheel and give it some movement with your hands, spin it and listen for the rumbling, push and pull top and bottom, left to right, see if there is any play there, which might suggest wheel bearing.
Will do,

I wonder if a tiny bit of play on bearing with Pothole hits can make play more vertically than front to rear and the combo of play, rough road and the impact vibration/wobble it can cause is just to much to quickly for the valves in shocks to be capable of dealing with properly which then causes wheel to be unable to keep good contact (gotta be a certain freq of hard, smallish jolting impacts a shock just carps out above cos of way/speed valves react)....
 
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Discussion Starter #19
One thing I forgot to ask have you checked to see if you can move the anti roll bar from side to side this is a common wear thing on the 147 this may cause a problem and cause the steering to go in and out of alignment ?
Apparently the bush stops are interference fit not welded and slowly move with time along the bar allowing it to move side to side? It then catches the drop links as it moves .
Unless you have replaced it might be worth a look :thumbs:
 
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Discussion Starter #20
There was no apparent movement when fitted, new meyle drop links and didn't see any marks on drop links to indicate contact though as part of improve car and get it as god as possible I am considering poly bushes on arb at some point.

Guess as no contact it could induce a clunk but less likely to induce noticeable bad handling of this kind :)
 
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