[jerseypeach]

My lovely 2007 147 JTDM has been gradually developing the common stuttering hesitating problem around 2000rpm. It had a 70,000 service at VELOCES last week with new cambelt etc, and I had them replace the MAF sensor as I'd read that can fix issues with hesitation. VELOCES thought they'd fixed it, but as it only happens when fully warmed up they missed dit. So it came back on the drive home. So depressing, after £1000 spent...
So the problem still remains, and a long motorway blast and city drive it was even worse than ever.
I've been raking through the various opinions online and threads on here and also looking over on SAAB, FIAT and Vauxhall sites as well, and I have collected various opinions.
I can't for the life of me think why it should be so hard to pinpoint the exact fault, when the problem is so common; surely SOMENONE should have a definitive answer by now??
So the notes on fixes seems to suggest -

BOOST CONTROL SOLENOID: remove filter, or clean or replace whole unit
NEW REMAP to include disabling the EGR
CHANGE THE FUEL FILTER
CHECK INJECTOR NUMBER THREE FOR CORROSION

Please, has anyone else any advice before I go back to VELOCES? They ahve been very helpful, but I'm not totally convinced they understood the issue of had even heard of it.

I'm thinking I'll give it one more shot at fixing before I have to get rid of the car, whuich I'll be very sorry to do, but it just seems shame that such a common engine used across many different brands has a problem that is impossible to locate and a solution that can be shared.

Thanks for any help, much appreciated.

 

[dgmayhead]

Any fault codes? I'd suspect it's the egr valve sticking as you say it only occurs once the engine is up to temperature.
Blank it and see how it drives. This is very cheap to do and the best place to begin investigation.
My other thought would be the connectors/plugs to the injectors can also fail giving loose connections that only present themselves at temperature.
I don't know veloces but I'd stay clear of main agents as they're inclined to replace all possible parts with no regard to cost. There are definitely some easy fixes out there for problems that initially look like complex and expensive faults.

 

[Chris155]

My 156 has had similar issues recently. See sig, last few posts.

 

[Alexie]

Record relevant engine parameters via OBD as you drive and look for inconsistencies that might help to pin point the cause. Waste of time guessing for something that could have various different causes.

Surely fuel filter would have been changed as part of the recent service ?

 

[_The_Editor_]

+1 for blanking out the EGR.

If it fixes he problem, top result. If it doesn't it simplifies the fault finding process.

Get the EGR blanked out and see what you've got to work with.

As for thing's happening at 2000 rpm... I believe this is about where in the rev range the swirl flaps go wide-open... A gentle ramp from closed to fully open from idle up to 2000 rpm... Given it's an '07 model, it'll have the black plastic manifold with the metal flaps.. Not heard of swirl flap issues just causing a hesitation at low/mid revs with no other symptoms, but they're beginning to fail more any more...

Any funny running leading up to 2000rpm? What about higher? does it make a difference what your road speed is? Slow pull / fast pull etc?

 

[halftone]

My lovely 2007 147 JTDM has been gradually developing the common stuttering hesitating problem around 2000rpm.....
I can't for the life of me think why it should be so hard to pinpoint the exact fault, when the problem is so common; surely SOMENONE should have a definitive answer by now??

The trouble is that there are lots of faults capable of causing this sort of generic all-is-not-well-with-induction/fuelling symptom. So there is no definitive answer, only lots of answers, most of which won't match the precise problem you have.

You might be able to pin it down by looking for more subtle clues, eg temp gauge misbehaviour (should be constant approx 90C once warmed up). Has fuel consumption increased? Is it smoking? Is turbo operation normal? Are fault codes being generated? Is the stuttering/hesitating transient and the car runs normally below and above those revs? Or is it good to 2k then lumpy thereafter?

 

[Erik Loye]

I would go back to the repair shop who did the service. They can find the fault and rectify it. Maybe it has something with their work to do or something else has broken.

 

[jerseypeach]

I thought I should update on my progress fixing this issue, and a general catch up.
I took the car back to Veloces to have another go, which I was disappointed to have to do after researching and spending so much already....
After a bit discussion we decided to replace the EGR unit. A blanking plate was discussed, but as this seems to give dash warning lights I decided against. A remap was also mentioned, as it can ignore the EGR, but as the EGR was likely faulty, this would still be a problem.
Veloces had also forgotten to replace the under engine valance, but not a major problem. Irritatingly the cruise control had also stopped working in the mean time, and they spotted nails in both rear tyres - oddly. So in for another £300 odd...
The car took them a day, so pretty good, and on the drive back from picking it up I was nervous for the hesitation issue to reappear, but I'm glad to say it didn't, so it seems we got there in the end.
It seemed odd to me that this Owner Group did not have a definitive answer to the stuttering problem, when it is clearly stated as a known fault on FIAT user groups. I found a pretty succinct FIAT recognized fault notice on this hesitation/stuttering at 2000rpm problem, and I attach it here in the hope it helps others.
I'm off for a long drive tomorrow, and hopefully back in love with my 147.
And now I'm thinking of that remap, and perhaps something to improve the slightly jiggly handling. An anti-roll bar??

 

[_The_Editor_]

It seemed odd to me that this Owner Group did not have a definitive answer to the stuttering problem, when it is clearly stated as a known fault on FIAT user groups. I found a pretty succinct FIAT recognized fault notice on this hesitation/stuttering at 2000rpm problem, and I attach it here in the hope it helps others.

To be fair, you got at least 2 responses telling you to get the EGR blanked out before fault finding any further... Which generally means adjusting the ECU map to delete the EGR function as well as fitting a full blanking plate, so no errors are generated at all.. Could have kept your old faulty/stuck EGR valve as well instead of shelling out for a new one!

 

[joeymannero]

I thought I should update on my progress fixing this issue, and a general catch up.
I took the car back to Veloces to have another go, which I was disappointed to have to do after researching and spending so much already....
After a bit discussion we decided to replace the EGR unit. A blanking plate was discussed, but as this seems to give dash warning lights I decided against. A remap was also mentioned, as it can ignore the EGR, but as the EGR was likely faulty, this would still be a problem.
Veloces had also forgotten to replace the under engine valance, but not a major problem. Irritatingly the cruise control had also stopped working in the mean time, and they spotted nails in both rear tyres - oddly. So in for another £300 odd...
The car took them a day, so pretty good, and on the drive back from picking it up I was nervous for the hesitation issue to reappear, but I'm glad to say it didn't, so it seems we got there in the end.
It seemed odd to me that this Owner Group did not have a definitive answer to the stuttering problem, when it is clearly stated as a known fault on FIAT user groups. I found a pretty succinct FIAT recognized fault notice on this hesitation/stuttering at 2000rpm problem, and I attach it here in the hope it helps others.
I'm off for a long drive tomorrow, and hopefully back in love with my 147.
And now I'm thinking of that remap, and perhaps something to improve the slightly jiggly handling. An anti-roll bar??

I think veloces could take some responsibility for telling you removing the EGR brings up fault codes..well it does unless you have the EGR mapped out, if they suggested the re-map they should have told you this would solve it IF the remap they provide has it mapped out if not then why?... Autolusso's EGR delete with 180 map is great, it was around £150 and I ran it for a year and 30k with no issues before upgrading to my hybrid set up. highly recommended reliable and enjoyable map.

Also the fault you describe is very generic diesel power train related stuff and can be anything from sticky VNT , to failing MAF or MAP sensors a small tear in the vac lines, dodgy solenoid switch, boost leak, or even a failing lambda sensor which often presents like MAF failure.

its hard to correctly diagnose over the web without codes, but again to be fair it was suggested in two of the answers you got.

re the handling, well eibach ARB's are a really good upgrade and sort the body roll enormously but in addition I would look at shocks and springs as well..the whole eibach kit is a good idea, I have it on my GT, transformed the handling from soft and wallowy to tight precise and reactive, steering feel is much improved as are the overall handling characteristics of the car...it also looks a whole lot better lowered.

Quaife Diff is also a worthy mod and if you are re-mapping you may as well get rid of the EGR once and for all. it will only cause issues in the long run.

with both the GT and the 147 1.9 JTDm its up to you how far you go, anything from a modest re-map to my eventual 240 BHP example is achievable.



it's entirely up to you..:thumbup:

 

[Autolusso]

I thought I should update on my progress fixing this issue, and a general catch up.
I took the car back to Veloces to have another go, which I was disappointed to have to do after researching and spending so much already....
After a bit discussion we decided to replace the EGR unit. A blanking plate was discussed, but as this seems to give dash warning lights I decided against. A remap was also mentioned, as it can ignore the EGR, but as the EGR was likely faulty, this would still be a problem.
Veloces had also forgotten to replace the under engine valance, but not a major problem. Irritatingly the cruise control had also stopped working in the mean time, and they spotted nails in both rear tyres - oddly. So in for another £300 odd...
The car took them a day, so pretty good, and on the drive back from picking it up I was nervous for the hesitation issue to reappear, but I'm glad to say it didn't, so it seems we got there in the end.
It seemed odd to me that this Owner Group did not have a definitive answer to the stuttering problem, when it is clearly stated as a known fault on FIAT user groups. I found a pretty succinct FIAT recognized fault notice on this hesitation/stuttering at 2000rpm problem, and I attach it here in the hope it helps others.
I'm off for a long drive tomorrow, and hopefully back in love with my 147.
And now I'm thinking of that remap, and perhaps something to improve the slightly jiggly handling. An anti-roll bar??

Best to delete the EGR valve rather than replace and fit a restriction gasket, clear as day what the issue was

Map with EGR delete £150 inc VAT

Ned

 

[broadsword]

It seems to me as though a couple of quid for an egr blanking plate and 20 minutes of your time would have sorted it and also transformed engine performance. Sounds like Veloces have done quite well out of it though...