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Discussion Starter #1
Got myself a ultrasonic cleaner and was looking at removing the injectors to clean them. Any one done this before and can suggest a solution to use in the bath?
 

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any injector cleaner in the bath will do the trick, Ive used redex, (also ar6400-cr and bg244 but expensive to use for this) (but any cheap injector cleaner you can get hold of should do, the ultrasonic action will do its job)in the bath to clean some then tried to recoup it by passing through coffee filters and lobbing back into car tank(if it looks clean enough)
paraffin or white spirits or similar may do also as high percentage of the cleaners sold but without lube at all no idea what it would do inside 100% strength ?
also be careful some baths heat the contents also.
I had a fairly small bath but could get all 4 injectors in lying down to cover maybe half way up, cycle and turn / rotate injectors to cover all sides(then I left soak in tall jar overnight in same solution, then repeated in ultrasonic next day, wouldn't suggest this on anything but an injector cleaner)
make sure you don't get any crap in the injector inlet fitting, or open fuel lines on rail or pipes
have 2 sets of new copper washers ready(just incase issue on refitting)
I used a ceramic anti seize paste on the bodies when I refitted my last set(to prevent the stuck injector syndrome)
if you have ability to record injector correction before and after cleaning, if your doing it for a particularly bad reading already and have mes to recode injector position ,think about installing the injectors in a different order to confirm or deny its an injector issue and not mechanical issue to one cylinder.
so if you have say bad no 3 now , remove and clean and instal no3 to number 1 recode position/codes. if number 3 still bad could be mechanical or plug/loom related.
if it moves to number 1(worst correction value) go's bad its most likely that injector, and cleaning hasn't helped
 

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Discussion Starter #4
any injector cleaner in the bath will do the trick, Ive used redex, (also ar6400-cr and bg244 but expensive to use for this) (but any cheap injector cleaner you can get hold of should do, the ultrasonic action will do its job)in the bath to clean some then tried to recoup it by passing through coffee filters and lobbing back into car tank(if it looks clean enough)
paraffin or white spirits or similar may do also as high percentage of the cleaners sold but without lube at all no idea what it would do inside 100% strength ?
also be careful some baths heat the contents also.
I had a fairly small bath but could get all 4 injectors in lying down to cover maybe half way up, cycle and turn / rotate injectors to cover all sides(then I left soak in tall jar overnight in same solution, then repeated in ultrasonic next day, wouldn't suggest this on anything but an injector cleaner)
make sure you don't get any crap in the injector inlet fitting, or open fuel lines on rail or pipes
have 2 sets of new copper washers ready(just incase issue on refitting)
I used a ceramic anti seize paste on the bodies when I refitted my last set(to prevent the stuck injector syndrome)
if you have ability to record injector correction before and after cleaning, if your doing it for a particularly bad reading already and have mes to recode injector position ,think about installing the injectors in a different order to confirm or deny its an injector issue and not mechanical issue to one cylinder.
so if you have say bad no 3 now , remove and clean and instal no3 to number 1 recode position/codes. if number 3 still bad could be mechanical or plug/loom related.
if it moves to number 1(worst correction value) go's bad its most likely that injector, and cleaning hasn't helped

Great help! With the redex solution, was that mixed with water?
Did you insert the whole injector or just the tip?
And with the correction values, is the positive or the negative reading the bad injector?

Thanks!
 

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no just neat don't add water to anything or rinse in water !
I think the redex can be had for 500ml for under a fiver if you shop around so less than a tenner for a full litre.
this should be more than enough to fill your bath unless you bought a big un.
don't think I got any pics of in the bath but I laid mine down in the bath top to tail, filled to cover the lower half of the injectors and then cycled them max time , rotated inj and repeat for many cycles.
you will need to rig some sort of jig or stand to do just the tips as they are pretty top heavy, also I wouldn't like the tip sitting on the metal base of the bath ? although the holes arnt at the very tip I wouldn't want to dink a hole.
don't be tempted to use any wire brush on the tip either, pick the crud from around the seal seat without scratching it and the higher tip before the sonic bath
here are some pics so you got an idea where holes in tip are etc
injector nozzle 001.jpg

injector nozzle 002.jpg

injector nozzle 003.jpg
Snapshot_20131128_5.JPG
this last pic using a 200x cheap usb microscope(holes are approx. 0.12mm accross)
looking at the last pics I think I had scotchbrite or fine emeried tip, but as I said at your own risk, if something gets stuck in a hole its screwed
this isn't me but similar method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4n5hadqmZU
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Gave it a go today and after re-installing I have found out I need some new injector seals! Does anyone know what sort of tightening torque is needed on the injector clamp? Tightened it up as much as I was comfortable to manually but 3 injectors are still losing some compression through the seals.

Is the negative or positive fuel correction the one to look out for?
 

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Gave it a go today and after re-installing I have found out I need some new injector seals! Does anyone know what sort of tightening torque is needed on the injector clamp? Tightened it up as much as I was comfortable to manually but 3 injectors are still losing some compression through the seals.

Is the negative or positive fuel correction the one to look out for?
I believe from what I've read if the injector correction value is above +/- 2 then the injector potentially has a problem. I took my car for a run with MES connected looking at the correction values and I have 2 of which one is generally above +2 upto +4 and the other below -2 which at times hits -6. A mechanic just advised me to replace them both but I would be interested to know if this DIY ultrasonic cleaning will work.
 

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from an old thread
Injector brackets - Nut M8 (cylinder head extension side) 2.3 - 2.8daNm - 1.9 JTD 16V, 2.4 JTD 20V
they will give higher correction values with low comp/leaking seals just as anything else mechanical like piston rings or valves could show up as a high correction value.
if you've got no option you can clean them up a bit and heat them till cherry red to aneal them, this will soften them so they (might) reseal.
if your trying to reuse old seals without annealing I don't think going tighter will help thy've gone hard.

if you get them sealed and still get + and - values write them down or log , cold start, cold idle, warm idle and reving to 2000rpm .
then if you have to or want to use new seals you can arrange the injectors in different cylinders and recode to help balance the natural correction.(to assist the ecu correction)
1,3,4,2, firing order best +/-/+/- or -/+/-/+ not +/+/-/- etc
wont make much difference but if you have to pull them again theres no reason not to(as long as you can recode their new positions)
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Starting is still a bit sluggish, that's hasn't changed. Maybe idles a little smoother, not a noticeable difference. Does feel like it has a bit more grunt though which is always a welcomed thing!
 

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Hey guys, so I'm getting a lumpy idle and a fair amount of smoke, also cold start is not being liked at all! Takes 2-3 starts before it will finally manage to splutter to life. With plumes of smoke! Once warmed it seems ok, pulls ok and otherwise smooth, I've had all glow plugs changed and hasn't solved the cold start issue. Do you think this is an injector issue? I'm on a 58plate 159 2.4 ti. Cambelt just been done, and currently on 73k and as far as aware no mods ie egr/swirl flap/ dpf.

Thansk in advance :)
 

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Theres a ECU software-update for your car if pre-08..Mines a 210 BHP late 07 & didnt have it. Completely solved the bad starting/lumpy idle after update.
 

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Theres a ECU software-update for your car if pre-08..Mines a 210 BHP late 07 & didnt have it. Completely solved the bad starting/lumpy idle after update.
Cheers chipmik, I will check this out, hopefully will get it sorted. I was wondering if I have injector issues or a build up of soot and crap, I've only just bought the car a week ago from a garage which gave me 12months warranty would this be covered? And if not how much does it cost?

Cheers :)
 

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Cheers chipmik, I will check this out, hopefully will get it sorted. I was wondering if I have injector issues or a build up of soot and crap, I've only just bought the car a week ago from a garage which gave me 12months warranty would this be covered? And if not how much does it cost?

Cheers :)
I paid approx 70£ about 2½ year ago at danish Alfa-dealer, so would be hard for me to imagine the price would be higher in UK :) Honestly i dont think you can expect the garage to cover..Unless autorized Alfa-dealer & they are "kind" to you :)
 

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Cheers chipmik, I will check this out, hopefully will get it sorted. I was wondering if I have injector issues or a build up of soot and crap, I've only just bought the car a week ago from a garage which gave me 12months warranty would this be covered? And if not how much does it cost?

Cheers
I paid approx 70£ about 2½ year ago at danish Alfa-dealer, so would be hard for me to imagine the price would be higher in UK :) Honestly i dont think you can expect the garage to cover..Unless autorized Alfa-dealer & they are "kind" to you :)

Thanks a lot for info! :) I have it booked in end of month for a health check and the software update, I've been quoted £70 +VAT it's with auto lusso, but I've just realised not the one everyone's been talking about on here with trusty ned! It's actually one in Bournemouth. Might have to check if anyone on here's got any input on how good they are, they seem to know what they're talking about and seem fairly reasonable in price hopefully on route to getting it sorted.

Thanks again for help much appreciated
 

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So I am in a similar position with the poor starting and smoke until all cylinders fire up fully. Has anyone else had the software updates and resolved this (so far new glow plugs, egr clean, throttle body clean, flaps seem in good shape, egr blanked with perforated plates and a can belt service to boot)
 

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Hi there!

Some time ago I had same story. One, two, three try to fire up in the morning with big cloud of white smoke. During day everything was fine. But time to time it was difficult to start even warm engine. Also was some vibrating on low revs 850 - 1200. Correction for 4 cil was +5.
So I decide go to local diesel service.
After primary check, guy on service find that one injector do not work as it should. So he put out all injectors and test it.
After that we see that one injector (4 cil) do not work on low revs - under 1500 rpm. On high revs all was fine.
Service guy clean all injectors, fix number 4 and I happy now.
Morning start is not a fight anymore. :biglaugh:

p.s. Engine is JTDm 1.9 8V
 

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Is the negative or positive fuel correction the one to look out for?
none, the balance should always be 0. It's the outliers that are of interest. I'd suggest swapping a high negative valued injector with a high positive valued one as the system also reacts to differences in compression ratio or friction.
 

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Hi guys. I need help.
Cleaned the injectors as above and refitted. Went to start and I'm getting nothing. It cranks but won't fire. HELP.
 
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