[Black-Sheep]

Hello guys,

as i am experiancing quite high tempertures on my remapped JTD (8V) during maximum load (uphill acceleration & high speed cruising) i'm trying to source something which will cool better.

Especially as there is a new Turbo waiting for installation....

My Stock Radiator is Technical ok - it's not loosing any fins
There is enough coolant in the sytem and the Water pump is alsow new - as is the Thermostat.

Right now i'm thinking about a 20V Radiator - but according to Eper they use a different part number - so i am a little unshure about the fittment.
If it's just thicker and maybe better designed it would fit... but if it's got the coolant lines on a different position it'll be a PITAS to fit... and space is already quite limited on the 156...

can anyone enlighten me on this one?
Or name a company producing an uprated Radiator?

best regards
BS

 

[yan.ko]

Haven't checked the ePer, but how about 16V radiator? I'm anyway thinking about 16V oil cooler.

 

[Joss]

How skyward does it go? Even before I had my remap if I mashed the throttle for a long time on a hill the temp would go up a bit. Usually climb past 90 towards where the fans kick in. I mentioned it on here but apparently its quite normal. Since the remap and FMIC its much better as inlet temps are much lower. I would be looking for a large FMIC first as the high inlet temps from the boost is causing the rapid rise in engine temps. Fix the cause not the problem! :thumbs:

 

[Singularity]

Water/meth injection should help reduce cylinder temps and egt's. This would help keep the water cool too?

 

[Black-Sheep]

Well it will go skyward enough ^^ past 90.... just short of the next mark on the gauge... went to lower load as i saw this....
i am aware that a decent IC will help - but once the new turbo goes in there will be more Heat in the combustion chamber again (more power = more burned fuel) so the stock rad would be again working on it's limits...

AFAIK the 16V Rad is 42mm thick where the 8V is only 29(?) or someting... so that would be quite a decent upgrade. however could any of those 16V guys tell where your hoses are connected?

On my 8V there is one Connection on the Top left and one on the Lower right side (sitting in the car).

 

[dusanGT]

W+M becomes very interesting... In which phase is your project, Singularity?

 

[Singularity]

Currently waiting for the intercooler.

Once this is in place I can mount the injector into a solid pipe without any boost leaks (current rubber pipes flex to much to have a leak proof seal).

I hope to have it mapped in october, then it'll be finished!!

I really need to get alfiadiag/fes so I can take readings with and with out the w/m etc, see what difference it'll make.

 

[Black-Sheep]

W/M injection is great stuff, but from my point of view overkill if a simple rad change will do to my needs....
can some 16V guys enlighten me on the water hoses of the 16V Radiator?

 

[yan.ko]

How skyward does it go? Even before I had my remap if I mashed the throttle for a long time on a hill the temp would go up a bit. Usually climb past 90 towards where the fans kick in. I mentioned it on here but apparently its quite normal. Since the remap and FMIC its much better as inlet temps are much lower. I would be looking for a large FMIC first as the high inlet temps from the boost is causing the rapid rise in engine temps. Fix the cause not the problem! :thumbs:

Joss, we are talking about 8V. These engines DOESN'T have an oil cooler. This is what makes a wrinkles to me a bit. Oil cooler with thermostat would be really, really appreciated, I think.

Someone with remapped 8V and oil temp gauge could post the temps here ... (Joel??)

 

[yan.ko]

Water/meth injection should help reduce cylinder temps and egt's. This would help keep the water cool too?

W/M injection is not IMHO long time solution. TCO question would also be quite interresting.

 

[TribesMan]

I'm almost 100% sure that if your temperatures go above 90°C when you are pushing it, you have problems with thermostat. Cars cooling system is quite a bit oversized, and it must handle even the desert heat without overheating.
Check your thermostat first.

16V also has an oil cooler, which helps a lot, especially cooling the oil, which is much more important than water. But fitting it to a 8V engine is impossible without some heavy modding. The whole oil pump assemby is different on 16V.

 

[dusanGT]

Unfortunately 1.9 JTD 8v (147 and 156 both) haven't "oil cooler", but "heat exchanger" (item No. 1 on the picture from ePer)... Ironically, 8v "exchanger" is more expensive than 16v "cooler", but isn't so efficient, IMO... BTW, I think that kgb has oil cooler on his 8v...
@Singularity - can you connect W/M injector to the inlet pipe of intake manifold? In the similar way many connected the external boost meter gauge...

 

[TribesMan]

Yes you can add oilcooler with oil filter adapter plate, but that one doesent have a thermostat for oil temperature.... and that is not the best thing... as it cools oil even when it is not needed or not desired.

 

[Black-Sheep]

@TribesMan
The Thermostat was changed last year - did it myself.
I highly doubt that an original Alfa part would fail just 25k km after installation....
alsow you got a 16V which has a way bigger cooler than the 8V

 

[Joss]

Black sheep.

Yes the hosing is the same for the 16v and the 8v so if it will fit the hoses will all line up too. My temp gauge does the same thing although much more slowly now. Roles right up but then holds where the fan kicks in so it flows ok. In terms of the stat I can see the theory but I too have recently changed the stat which had failed open. Before that the temp went from 70 to where the fans kick in so no difference except it started from the lower temp.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ALFA-ROMEO-16...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e5bf3b6e0
Found an oil cooler for you for cheap although I'm sure you'll be doing some modding as it for a 166.

 

[Singularity]

@Singularity - can you connect W/M injector to the inlet pipe of intake manifold? In the similar way many connected the external boost meter gauge...

You can fit it directly in the inlet manifold, you can do a small injector for each cylinder.

On this engine there is problems though, the inlet manifold seems to be plastic for a start and there is little space.

The company I purchased it from has advised to place it at least 150mm before the butterfly valve in the inlet pipe.

I will have to mount the boost reading before this so I don't risk water getting to my controller and frying it.

You can also do a pre turbo injection (water only), this cools the turbo dramatically, apparently.

 

[JS JTD]

Someone with remapped 8V and oil temp gauge could post the temps here ... (Joel??)

Unfortenately my oil temp gauge isn't working yet because the adaptor wasn't sealing effective.

But I think for 8v it's better to place an oil cooler first as this is more important and also related to the water temp.
Btw: I don't have any issues with water temp, it's always rock solid at 90 degrees only in hot days in traffic jams it exceeds the 90 with a couple degrees.

 

[Black-Sheep]

@Joss
i guess in case of an oil cooler i'd go for the 16V part too...but not jet - i run a relatively high tem. Oil (Mobile 1 W5-W50)
alsow keep in mind - the engine oil is not primary to cool the engine cause it can't absorb much heat energy (compared to water).
It takes way longer to heat up - but i have to admit - i don't have a clue how high Engine Oil Temp actually gets. Second thing - if the thermostat is set up to early you'll never reach operational oil-temps on a highway run.
I got a Mocal Oil cooler on my 200sx it's thermostat was set to 70°C (factory) and this was way to early for normal driving. temp never reached anything past 80..... now imagine your JTD running with oil which never reaches operational tempertures.... :/

@JS JTD
Just found a few measurements on some part dealer websites, it seems the 147 (even 8V) got a bigger intercooler from the start (it's wieder & thicker) compared to the 8V in the 156.
if you say - you have no problems with water temp - have you been on a German Autobahn without speedlimit on a hot day....going 180kph plus for a few kilometers? Or hard driving (and i mean it) on a landroad - downshifting - quite a few 3rd gear pulls on short straights etc?

Oh and BTW: you keep talking bout "the" Fans - in my 156 it's only 1 fan. < Could alsow have some influence on the Temperture??

 

[Cuore_Sportivo_155]

the 156 2.4 jtd has 2 fans, just like the V6...

 

[JS JTD]

@JS JTD
Just found a few measurements on some part dealer websites, it seems the 147 (even 8V) got a bigger intercooler from the start (it's wieder & thicker) compared to the 8V in the 156.
if you say - you have no problems with water temp - have you been on a German Autobahn without speedlimit on a hot day....going 180kph plus for a few kilometers? Or hard driving (and i mean it) on a landroad - downshifting - quite a few 3rd gear pulls on short straights etc?

Maybe that explains the difference then.

Yes I've been to the German autobahn several times, also in summer (holiday).
Never experienced 90+ temps during that.

If I'm right, the opening in the 147's front is also bigger than a 156.
And of course, my FMIC doesn't block off the whole radiator behind it, all important factors.