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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of the standard intercooler? I've found a larger version which is a sidemount and supposedly plug and play to replace the standard one but I can't work out if its only the thickness that's larger than standard, or if its also slightly longer (I'm getting conflicting information when I look online).

This is the larger aluminum intercooler:


Overall dimensions are: 370mm x 170mm x 95mm
Radiant mass: 230mm x 170mm x 95mm

I'm sure many will suggest that if upgrading the intercooler its much better to fit a front mount, but I'm trying to keep my updgrades as stealthy and as hassle free as possible both in terms of fitment but also in terms of insurance loadings. From what I can see, a front mount may require mods to the power steering cooler and perhaps drilling holes in the front panel and possibly cutting the inside of the bumper, none of which I want to do.

Many thanks for any info anyone can provide.
 

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Fitting a FMIC is simple and doesn't require extensive modification. All you'd have to do is put a gentle bend in the power steering cooler and the IC sits behind the front panel without issue. If you buy a black one it'll be practically invisible. Here's a link to a suitable one. Remember that you shouldn't go too large as it'll be counter-productive; diesels don't use the air charge in the same way as a petrol...

The one on your link looks only slightly bigger and I'd suggest it'd be better routing more air to the standard item rather than spending that much for very little gain. Most air escapes past the IC, especially if the car is running without an undertray. If you enlarge/seal the channel leading to it then that'd be a good start if you want to keep the side mount.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
many thanks for your help, sounds like the slightly larger side mount won't really give me any noticeable benefits. Many thanks for the link, I think if I do go down the front mount route I'd like something that's specifically designed for the car and comes with the relevant pipework. I'd much rather have stainless steel pipes than silicone hoses as the silicone expands under boost and loses some of the pressure. I'd go for something like this:


My biggest reservation is the potential insurance loading for a front mount, having had modified cars before I know how much of pain it can be to insure them, some insurers refuse cover and others load the policy by so much that you're better off just buying a faster car and keeping it stock.
 

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That IC is too big unless you're planning on a larger/hybrid turbo and other mods. It looks decent quality but that much volume will slow the air charge down, especially with long piping. You want one with same-side inlet and outlet.

Silicone hose hardly pants at all, it's one of the reasons for using it. Just ensure you use rolled-edge hose clips or they can slice in to it.

I'd talk to your insurance company first, they might be fine. If not then talk to one that offers a semi-classic policy; many mods are accepted.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks very much for all the information, its very much appreciated.

I'm not planning on a bigger turbo, my car is a Ducati Corse so I believe it has a different turbo and injectors to a normal 1.9jtd anyway, although there is conflicting information as to whether this is actually the case. It has been remapped and has a JTD Performance downpipe which removes the pre-cat, stainless intercooler pipework and a JTD Performance intake section which replaces the anti-shudder valve etc. It has also had an EGR and swirl flap delete. It pulls very well indeed but I know that the stock intercooler is probably a bit compromised and restrictive in terms of its size and location so I was looking at ways in which I could help to make the most of what I have without heading into the minefield of bigger turbos and all the subsequent supporting mods which become very expensive and make the car difficult to insure. My plan is to just make the most of the standard setup, removing as many compromises to flow as possible, I did wonder about fitting some of the JTD Performance airbox modifications which increase the size of the intake to the airbox and the pipework from airbox to turbo including a bigger 80mm maf. I suspect these might require more remapping and without an off the shelf map it all becomes a bit too expensive and too much hassle.
 

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Fitting a larger intercooler may result in the need for a modified engine map, as Major_Clanger alluded to. The greater air mass takes longer to compress which means the fuel injectors start injecting more before the greater air quantity reaches the engine. The result is delayed response, a puff of smoke and maybe a dirty rear end.

Those selling modified parts don't tend to tell people that bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
thanks very much for your help, it sounds as though its probably best to just leave things as they are...
 

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The Ducati Corse runs the same turbo as 150hp engines, though it may be mapped differently, the injectors are different though and can handle larger amounts of fuel.... My approach is very similar to yours. I've got a 147 Q2 and have set about improving what is already a good engine. It's an interesting ongoing project as I've spent much of my life in professional motorsport (mostly with Ducatis oddly enough) but know very little about tuning diesel engines, it's a very different science!

For starters try improving the airflow to/through the IC. I found that the standard set-up wastes much airflow and a good deal of it runs straight back underneath the car, especially if the undertray is removed. The standard IC is plenty big enough unless you want serious ooomph. Mine is currently about 410nm torque and 190hp and I've altered the suspension/brakes/CofG so the whole lot complements one another. The engine will go much further but I think it would start to make the car essentially unbalanced and not nearly so much fun to drive on twisty roads. YouTube is full of monster JTDs putting out up to 700nm torque (!!!) but they're not much use for anything except the drag-strip, IMO anyway.

I'm currently making some cooling ducts for the brakes that will replace the fog lights. Next time I've got the front panel off I'll take some pics of how I've directed more air to the IC.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I've heard different things about the Ducati Corse turbocharger vs the 150 bhp JTDs, some say the Ducati has an upgraded turbo when compared the Q2 Sport; some say that early Q2s had 150bhp, but later versions had the Ducati Corse turbocharger and injectors, I guess we'll never really know the truth.

Its nice to have some information from someone who knows what they're talking about and is interested in practical application rather than outright on-paper figures. I think my car must have similar power and torque figures to yours but I'm not certain as it was never stated when I had the car remapped. It was done by Autolusso and my car had an EGR delete and the choice was to just map out the EGR or to have a performance remap at the same time, I chose the latter. Some remaps claim to give up to 220bhp on the Ducati Corse but that sounds a bit optimistic to me, I fitted the de-cat downpipe and intake mods at the same time so I can't comment on the effect of the remap alone but the combination of everything made a huge difference. I may have been imagining it but I also noticed a big difference when I swapped from silicone to stainless steel intercooler pipes, I noticed that the silicone hoses were dramatically swelling when the engine was revved, to me this suggested that boost was being wasted and I bought a set of these:

53654673_1304896399649221_922784263395344384_n.jpg

I find my car to be good fun to drive and really pulls from low down until it runs out of turbo at about 4500rpm, whilst it would be nice to have a bit more go, I don't think I'd want to compromise too much on the low down power delivery. Your thoughts on the standard intercooler are very interesting and I'd be very interested to see your modified intercooler ducting.

I'm sure you already know that Mito / Abarth 500 Brembo calipers are a straight swap if you want to do a brake upgrade? I've fitted them to mine along with 305mm discs and whilst I was expecting an improvement in braking I didn't expect it to be so dramatic. I always thought the standard brakes were reasonable but the difference between the standard brakes and the Brembos is night and day, they really are fantastic. If you do go down that route you might need to check the clearance of your wheels with the calipers, I fitted the brake upgrade then found the wheels were fouling on the calipers so I had the choice of fitting spacers or different wheels, I chose to fit some 18" Jetfins as seen on some GTAs.
 

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The Italians have a habit, sometimes endearing sometimes infuriating, of bolting on whatever came to hand at the time of assembly, but that doesn't apply to our turbos. They're all the same. The only physical difference between the engines is that yours has larger injectors.

I put 330 fronts on mine before I started work on the engine as it's a truism that good brakes (as in modulation and feel, not just power) make for faster lap times. I used Integrale discs as the offset worked with the carriers I made. I use Carbone Lorraine pads with different compounds for road/track. I've got some old but lovely Brembo floating discs to go on at some stage but the bobbins that attach the rotor to the carrier need replacing. Offset was fine on the Q2 wheels but I'm running 12mm spacers on the front (8mm rear) so the clearance is fine.
951795
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yes, there is also a factor of using up remaining parts when cars are coming to the end of production so some cars may end up with parts that you might not expect.

I thought you'd probably be one step ahead of me with your upgrades :) The 330mm brakes look very nice, they were going for crazy money when I did my upgrade so I went for the next best thing that was a bolt on upgrade. I'm using Performance Friction pads on Brembo discs and they seem to work very well. Probably not quite such an issue with warping as on the GTA as the JTD is a bit lighter.

Thanks again for all the info
 

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I've heard different things about the Ducati Corse turbocharger vs the 150 bhp JTDs, some say the Ducati has an upgraded turbo when compared the Q2 Sport; some say that early Q2s had 150bhp, but later versions had the Ducati Corse turbocharger and injectors, I guess we'll never really know the truth.
According to Alfa parts turbo is the same for JTDm 150 y 170 DC. It's a 1749vc detuned. Others differences are injectors and clutch.
JTD 16v 140-150 has different turbo, 1749vb type.

Anyway you can check your turbo code like this
 

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thanks very much for your help, it sounds as though its probably best to just leave things as they are...
Did you notice any improvement after removing the anti-shudder butterfly? I'm told it can't prevent the engine running away so I'm interesting in removing the restriction.
 

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I would not expect any difference on a turbo car....the air is forced in under pressures and the restriction is minimal......not sucked I like an NA car (where it might possibly have made a difference). The only affects will be a horrible shudder when you switch the engine off (the valves main job is stopping this) and the EGR valve not working as well...if you still have one. Diesel tuning shops don't generally do it...which is good enough for me...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
According to Alfa parts turbo is the same for JTDm 150 y 170 DC. It's a 1749vc detuned. Others differences are injectors and clutch.
JTD 16v 140-150 has different turbo, 1749vb type.

Anyway you can check your turbo code like this
ok thanks very much, I think that resolves that question, it seems that all 150 bhp and 170 bhp engines definitely have the same turbo.

Did you notice any improvement after removing the anti-shudder butterfly? I'm told it can't prevent the engine running away so I'm interesting in removing the restriction.
With such a relatively minor modification I wasn't expecting any significant difference in performance, but to me the engine seemed to be a little more responsive and less strangled. It wasn't a night and day difference, but my view is that every little helps and if you can remove as many restrictions as possible it will help to make the most of the relatively standard setup. Personally I don't think it makes any difference if an engine is naturally aspirated or turbocharged, an obstruction or restriction in an intake will have an effect whether air is being sucked in or blown through. If you suck or blow on a length of hosepipe with the same amount of force, the pressure coming through the opposite end should be the same in principle.

The modified intake part itself is relatively cheap at £100 or so, and it sounds as though you probably have the skills to make one yourself so it should be even cheaper. I haven't noticed any issues with the removal of the anti-shudder valve and there isn't really any particularly unpleasant shudder, if there is its barely perceptible.
 
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