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Did you contact Stephan Lenoir at Squadra? H&S probably specializes in KMS, but when it comes to Motronic, I doubt anyone is better than Stephan.
 

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I’m thinking the same: if you live in holland then why would you not go to Squadra?

I’m thinking of driving over there and I live in Sweden!
 

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Did you contact Stephan Lenoir at Squadra? H&S probably specializes in KMS, but when it comes to Motronic, I doubt anyone is better than Stephan.
Yes. Stephan however is not keen on tuning the "unfamiliar". So with an, for him, unknown cam set and timing he was not really eager to help. That was the reason why I initially ended up at RV corse / Savali. And the fact that he wasn't able to increase the idle on the 3.1... From a business prospective it even makes sense since the older stuff requires a bit more work and therefore make way less profit than the newer (turbo) cars. I'm not saying that Squadra is not good at all btw and my GTV was squadra tuned in the past.

H&S do have a lot of knowledge on mechanical tuning as well and even suggested different cam settings.

But, I will approach Squadra in the beginning of next year again.
 

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I'm surprised that Squadra is reluctant to tune it. What about across the channel? Alfatune comes to mind. Although in NL there should be plenty of willing tuners. It's not like you're in the US, where there is virtually no Motronic tuners other than BMW only motronic tuners. I'm even having trouble getting some dyno time. I'm not even using Motronic, no need for special BIN, XDEF files etc. Any idiot with a laptop and mechanical knowledge should be able to tune it.

Typical phone conversation "What car you got?" "An Alfa." "A what? An @lpha? WTF is that? Sorry buddy, can't help ya, we only do 'stangs or Hondas" .
 
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Yes. Stephan however is not keen on tuning the "unfamiliar". So with an, for him, unknown cam set and timing he was not really eager to help. That was the reason why I initially ended up at RV corse / Savali. And the fact that he wasn't able to increase the idle on the 3.1... From a business prospective it even makes sense since the older stuff requires a bit more work and therefore make way less profit than the newer (turbo) cars. I'm not saying that Squadra is not good at all btw and my GTV was squadra tuned in the past.

H&S do have a lot of knowledge on mechanical tuning as well and even suggested different cam settings.

But, I will approach Squadra in the beginning of next year again.
I had a lot of trouble in the UK with any of the well known remap specialists wanting to get involved for the same type of reasons. More work for them than I assume than a standard car where they have all parameters stored.
 

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Just seen this post on one of the Facebook https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1984638851612609&id=142315202511659&anchor_composer=false

253hp + 298nm torque claim. Interesting as only change vis mine really would be on surface is updated the inlet cams to 3.2s ?

Also the BMC intake but, not larger throttle body?

Never did query when people change the inlet cams only to 3.2s does this mean they use 3.2 cam locks on inlets and 3.0 cam locks on exhurst cams. Sorry showing my lack of knowledge here. Thus are cars timings differed vs standard. Obviously thinking about Tonini who tried 3.2 timings and then moved back to 3.0 timings with Jim K cams.

Also interesting how the remap on this was squadra! Also posting is by H&S. So Tosini looks like they may be able to do something for you? As a minimum may be able to explain why this Alfa does so well on Dyno.
 

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Just seen this post on one of the Facebook https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1984638851612609&id=142315202511659&anchor_composer=false

253hp + 298nm torque claim. Interesting as only change vis mine really would be on surface is updated the inlet cams to 3.2s ?

Also the BMC intake but, not larger throttle body?

Never did query when people change the inlet cams only to 3.2s does this mean they use 3.2 cam locks on inlets and 3.0 cam locks on exhurst cams. Sorry showing my lack of knowledge here. Thus are cars timings differed vs standard. Obviously thinking about Tonini who tried 3.2 timings and then moved back to 3.0 timings with Jim K cams.

Also interesting how the remap on this was squadra! Also posting is by H&S. So Tosini looks like they may be able to do something for you? As a minimum may be able to explain why this Alfa does so well on Dyno.
If I'm fitting GTA cams to a 3.0 then I time them up with the GTA locking tools. But, I don't think there is any/much difference between the cam locks for the exhaust cams. Its certainly not something noticeable by eye if there is a difference.

Throttlebody isn't really a restriction on these engines. Inlet manifold design could be better and is arguably under-sized for the 3.0 & 3.2, but I'm not convinced by just making it bigger without considering the shape.
 

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I fit my 3.0 with 3.2 inlet cams as well and used 3.2 cam locks for both int/exh. Just seems like the right move.
I read that the exhaust cams locks on the 3.2 has a slightly different adjustment compared to the 3.0 cam locks so I didn’t feel like changing those settings.

Btw: 253hp/298Nm seems quite reasonable from that 3.0 with gta cams. I was aiming for 260+ but haven’t gone for mapping yet.
Will probably build a 3.2 before that happens...:smokin:
 

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Throttlebody isn't really a restriction on these engines. Inlet manifold design could be better and is arguably under-sized for the 3.0 & 3.2, but I'm not convinced by just making it bigger without considering the shape.
Agree.....there was no difference between stock TB and 82mm TB from Porsche using OE inlet manifold......but there is lot of difference between both when i use below manifold......and i see the difference in MAF readings with FES.......not just my feelings.....
 

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As we go into winter and I explore any further playing with my set up in the spring, apart from Tosini has anyone else fitted the JimK cams to a GTV and had everything running and mapped?

It would be great to compare side by side to see if my car is really right or not and get someone else’s opinion, problem is I am probably now used to the behaviour.

Whilst I do accept that mine being high mileage may have lost some HP over years I still do wonder if something else is not 100%. Thus really wonder if something else is going on. I really wish I had done a Dyno run pre cam change☹ so recommend this to anyone else.

I am beginning to wonder that perhaps the exhaust Cams on the 3.2s and the 3.0 are very similar. Thus those that have switched to GTA cams have managed to change the inlet cams only or even if changing all four, means exhaust Cam profile is largely unchanged.

Could this be the reason no other reports found of anyone having issues with brake vacuum having done any of the documented Cam changes. If so this may mean without another bespoke solution the JimK cams are more suitable to track/race cars rather than road.

Thus if anyone else has suffered the vacuum issues to brakes at idle can they let me know how they resolved. Does anyone know of a garage who may be willing to try and retro fit a vacuum pump? Nearest Alfa specialist is let just say “very wary” of playing with any non standard brake systems. I did buy a extra vacume canister however nowhere to fit under hood of GTV�� so that killed that possible solution.



Beginning to worry this could give me an issue at MOT time next March so really need to decide and find a brake specialist who can make sure issue is lack of vacuum due to Cams only and not any other issue. Likewise if so be prepared to custom fit a pump solution.

Really wish we had a tried and tested Map specialist local UK or Europe who had worked with the JimK solution who would know if my car is still not exactly as would expect.

If I cannot solve by Spring then hoping, I am not then forced to a possible switch back to standard Cams? Pain of all labour cost and getting Map reversed is a horrible thought however not sure MOT testers will rev car when doing brake tests?

Also just knowing slight doubt on brakes in back of mind probabably means not enjoying car to max. I would imagine doing the Stelvio Pass earlier in the year would have been much more enjoyable having 100% confidence that brake servo would always do its bit!

Only kit I have seen is as per this YouTube video which was designed as a retrofit for a Volvo.
however the Yanks seek to be using so even if I can but the kit need someone to fit and hopefully is smaller than the vacuum can I did not have room for.

Just found on eBay https://www.ebay.de/p/Volvo-30641411/1517131749 not sure if I can find in the UK however seems easier getting from Germany than getting from US.
 

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Looking at the parts catalog (Fiat eper) between all 24v engines (2.5+3.0) there seem to be 2 different part numbers for the exhaust cams and 3 for intake cams. However, only one p/n from each for the 3.2liter, which is to say that 3.2 engines all have the same set of cams. Except for the gta intake cams, I can't say what the differences are between the other 24v cams, may only be the timing scribe marks for all I know. Exhaust cam dowel pins are different also (2 types) because of different sensor type (inductive/short and Hall/long so take care what goes where!) so remember this when awitching cams from 2.5 to 3liters etc. Different cam versions are identified as 3.0 24v, 3.0 Brasil Automatic, 3.0 24v CF3, 3.0 24v Brasil CF3 Automatic, 3.2 24v. To complicate things even further, they started using 2.5liter cams in 3liter engines, sometime during the production run. Go figure... Given this, I would not be at all sure that ALL gta engines have the same cams. I have pulled parts out of std engines in the past that shouldn't be there, so I wouldn't be surprised by any such mix-ups. Many times, makers keep using certain engine parts until they are depleted before going to the new version. A good example here are gta rods which should NOT have the old side oiling pinhole but many did, even if the related bearings did not. Financially it makes good sense to use up all old stock, but in the parts books, only the new rods show up!
My regrinds are all 10mm profiles (except a very few 10.3mm intake ones). So far, the biggest problem I am aware of is the warning light/safe mode thing, but this has been easily solved (credit to Alex) by retarding the rear exhaust cam 2-4 degrees. We did the same with one of our cars here and that was the end of it. Can't say much on the brake issue, many guys I know have also upgraded to bigger wheels/brakes so all relevance is lost.

Jim K.
 

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Jim,

Well you should have told me about the different lengths of the dowel pin 4 months ago..... guess what the 164 dowel pin did to my 156 sensor? Now I’m using a sensor from an E46 325i spaced away a bit from the pin.

By the way I didn’t experience any vacuum problems with these cams in either my 156 3.0 or my 75 3.2.

Philcrazy, have you checked the one way valve for the booster?
 
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Right, the dowel type can ruin your day if you move cams from one car to the other and they happen to be different! :disappointed:

Jim K.
 

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Phil: Jims cams really arent that aggressive so they shouldn’t solely give idle/vacuum problems.
I would suggest you go back to basics and check every hose connection, vacuum port and the little vacuum valve for leakage and clean uour throttle body.
If that doesn’t sort your issues I’d suggest move on to the tedious part: check your cams! Even with just GTAcams the idle can become quite lumpy when there’s too much overlap.
I did my own cam swap and I know that I probably ended up with a tiny bit of too much overlap because at times my idle can drop to 500rpm before recovering and at times the enginge surges a little bit on idle and can sound like a deep breathing nascar racer (that’s partly down to the wizard exhaust though hehehehehe)

Bottom line: if your cams have jut a little bit tio much overlap hour intake air is going straight out the exhaust valve port before the exhaust valve has closed which means your car will be blowing air right through the engine instead of trapping it inside and compressing it for the big bang.
When air goes straight through because of excessive overlap guess what: hou loose vacuum AND you lose power.

Your engine seems to behave quite well, and so does mine but I can feel that I’m no where near optimal power in the lower power band and then at 4000rpm it all comes back on att 11.
That’s quite normal tell tale signs of too much overlap, even if it may be just a slight bit too much.

These 24v bussos are a bit sensitive when it comes to cam timing and you loose a tremendous amount of power quickly if even one cam is slightly off. And you loose vacuum.
You are lacking both, my money is on cam timing but always start with the easy bit: making sure every single hose connection and vacuum valve is tight and operating correctly.

My 2 cents.
Or is that 2pence or something now that you’ve all gone brexit? :party: ;)
 

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Jim, what can I do if I get a missfire error on the front head? On idle only, otherwise it's fine. Do I also retard the exhaust cam, but on the front head?
 

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Let me rephrase that. The company itself is called RevLimit tuning. Revlimit ECU Tuning - Home

They seem to do a decent job, but I'm not sure if they are able to unleash the "full potential" (albeit very restrictive) of the motronic 3.1.

RevLimit has a dealer a couple of kilometers from where I live which specializes mostly in racing and tuning of Alfa turbo engines (H&S corse). They do have the mechanical expertise but I'm not sure about the ECU tuner H&S uses.
bit of a late response, apologies.

H&S is very well known and highly rated in Abarth and Giulietta scene, they outclass Savali on every aspect.
Check some of their posts on instagram, when they refer to 'other well-known tuner' then they refer to Savali, they show quite substantial mistakes in savali tunes...
H&S has much experience in 2.0 engines (for racing activities) and t-jet, but also busso.
The revlimit software is adapted based on test drives, if needed, so it is not really 'standard' software but bespoke to a certain degree.

My Gulietta QV has a H&S tune, my GTA has squadra.
Stephan is a real expert as well; my advise would be to check both of them.
 

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Hi Binji,
I am not sure the ecu can have proper info about timing of all cams, except for the rear exhaust cam. Its possible that increased overlap will change the afr so the O2 sensor relays this change to the ecu. I would therefore think that a small retard of the front exhaust cam also, would possibly cure the problem indication -without being sure- if there is nothing else wrong, like a leaking injector or marginal coil for example. Note that gta intake cams are retarded by ~3 degrees compared to other 24v engines-that's one reason why cam blocks for gta are different. This retard definitely decreases overlap.

Jim K.
 

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Stephan is a real expert as well; my advise would be to check both of them.
ArieB,

Apparently Squadra is not too keen on mapping a car with cams he is not familiar with.

Actually Jim, can you tuner reprogram any ECU that is sent to him? He must have maps for a 3.0 with your 10mm cams right?

Thanks,

Zamani
 
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