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Headline of this thread is still valid, but......

Tavares is once again delivering record earnings for PSA.

We can hope he will succed with his Magic Wand also with FCA/PSA and that the Family will not let him shut down Alfa - although coming years will be tough for Alfa Romeo. Corona does not help - stock markets are down.
I think FCA and Alfa in particular were very fortunate to have done a deal with PSA. Tavares is a petrol head and has a clarity of thought which FCA / Alfa really need. Fixing Alfa isn't rocket science, I'm sure Tavares has a plan. At least FCA got one thing right to really go for this deal as Marchinonne predicted it would be needed. Otherwise FCA/Alfa (maybe not Jeep) would be dead in less than 5 years.
 

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French saloons have - by tradition - a major problem: lack of performance - engine/handling

It began with ID/DS 19/21 ( the Goddess, 1955), which was designed to have a new V6. Unfortunately the engine was too heavy - vehicle could just go straight ahead. Available I4 was installed.

Citroen SM, was probably "best of bunch"- for its time. Lack of engine performance. Weird steering.

Citroen C6 was a lemon - did not sell outside of France.

Space and comfort has always been top notch.
 

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C6 was a good looking car, so too the last C5. Only thing that stopped them selling was the ingrained prejudice Citroen experiences, much like Alfa Romeo does.
 

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I had a V6 diesel 408 coupe. Lovely comfy car, looked great but boy it nearly killed me on 3 occasions.... The handling was terrible.... Just did know if you would make it around corners...... Awful drive... So bad I took it to we buy any car. Com just to shift it ASAP before it finished me off. No idea how it ever got passed peugoets test track...... Lethal thing
 

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I don`t know about current hydropneumatic suspension, but I and my friend went down to the 50:ties anneversiry of the Goddess, in 2005 in Paris- In his 1974 ID19.

Apart from everything else, we visited the Paris Technological Museum, where they had a display of various Goddesses, including a cut through of the suspension- including the wire operated rear height control. I promised myself, that if we would make it home, I would never ride in a Citroen again.

The vehicle broke down as we stopped at his house.
 

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2020, Giulia Veloce, Silverstone Grey and Black Leather
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Judging from the new DS bigger saloon based on the Peugeot equivalent, but with a longer wheelbase, they do need a real premium brand. The DS 9 saloon is here to prove big French saloons aren't dead
Hi
Alfa Romeo is the only (sub Maserati) premier brand the merged group has - its begging for some clear strategic thinking to put it where it should be. I am sure Tavares can see the opportunity to use Alfa in this way. To my mind the opportunity ''screams' to be grasped :)
 

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My point is that Alfa has more potential for premium credibility within the new merged group than than badges like PSA already had.
 

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My point is that Alfa has more potential for premium credibility within the new merged group than than badges like PSA already had.
I agree totally- to me its a very clear market opportunity waiting to be developed.
 

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Hi
Alfa Romeo is the only (sub Maserati) premier brand the merged group has - its begging for some clear strategic thinking to put it where it should be. I am sure Tavares can see the opportunity to use Alfa in this way. To my mind the opportunity ''screams' to be grasped :)
While I agree, the ‘opportunity to be grasped’ dynamic has characterised Alfa’s malaise since at least the mid 80s.

Maybe Alfa’s ‘soul’ is having the last laugh here. It’s been neglected, underfunded, promised investment, denied investment, delivered some gems, even generated some sales, has seen out more CEOs and MDs than its had models, and yet -still! - it just keeps plodding on in its own mystical way, with a trickle of sales and an adoring fan base. You’ve got to - even after all these years - just smile at the madness of it all, knowing full well, in all probability, it’ll still be like this another 20 years from now.
 

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While I agree, the ‘opportunity to be grasped’ dynamic has characterised Alfa’s malaise since at least the mid 80s.

Maybe Alfa’s ‘soul’ is having the last laugh here. It’s been neglected, underfunded, promised investment, denied investment, delivered some gems, even generated some sales, has seen out more CEOs and MDs than its had models, and yet -still! - it just keeps plodding on in its own mystical way, with a trickle of sales and an adoring fan base. You’ve got to - even after all these years - just smile at the madness of it all, knowing full well, in all probability, it’ll still be like this another 20 years from now.
Hi Scudetto
Looking back I agree that Alfa has plodded along a kind of 'mystical' path. However I am not so sure that approach will survive. Things are changing fast, very fast, and the new PSA and FCA tie up will, I believe, be the impetus for change. From my perspective the Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat and Jeep brands. all have their place, but none of those has the potential to slot in just below Maserati to produce a cohesive and complete range of products. The new Giulia and Stelvio have shown what can be produced, Alfa now needs a range that reflects market place needs to gain a more stable foothold in the market place (both Europe, US and elsewhere).
It needs money of course, but it also needs the nous to align a product strategy with the now very fast moving market place.
So while I agree with the points you make I don't necessarily think looking to the past can now be used to inform the future. Of course it will be in terms of the Alfa dna etc, but not as yardstick to inform how best to develop the brand within a combined PSA/FCA group.

Anyway, just my view- certainly an interesting topic!;)
 

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I think many people are aware of the history of Alfa Romeo and a strong image with the right product gets sales in a market which is so complex. See how many people buy an Apple IPhone impulsively , knowing only android fans will ask them to explain themselves. Unfortunately as they are Alfas get a bemused admiration from non-Alfa owners as it takes courage and travel for most people to buy one new.
 

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I believe Alfa has a "911" problem. Die hard afficiados said: If you are going to sell SUV:s, I will never by a 911 again.
Perhaps they didn`t - who cares?

I.e. Alfa need to take the knowledge and - proven - ability, to develop vehicles with Best In Class performance- in various classes - without going over the top, because that cost money.

Giulia and Stelvio was purposedly over the top - now Alfa need to do the economical best in class performance re. engine/handling.
 

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“Die hard afficiados said: If you are going to sell SUV:s, I will never by a 911 again.”
Maybe they died? Or now drive a Macan most of the week.
 

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“Die hard afficiados said: If you are going to sell SUV:s, I will never by a 911 again.”
Maybe they died? Or now drive a Macan most of the week.
Hi Cue2
Yes I quite agree the '911' fraternity need to move on - and fast.

Tjalle I agree with your comment, 'Giulia and Stelvio was purposedly over the top - now Alfa need to do the economical best in class performance re. engine/handling.

Mind you having owned a Giulia Veloce for three years in June, I am really enjoying driving an 'over the top' Alfa:)
All the best guys- Looking forward to what Geneva brings and not just the (Alfa) product, but the direction of (Alfa) travel!!
 

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It wouldn't surprise me if Alfa go the way of Saab! Just count the number of Giulias and Stelvios you see on the road - the numbers don't make sense.They are not really appealing to anyone right now. In order to give the masses what they want (sensible stuff, storage compartments boots space an SUV) they are loosing everything that makes an Alfa an Alfa - the essence of it's soul, the bit that makes me love and want to buy an Alfa - the bit I can't explain. This has left them with a decent saloon and SUV that are not quite what the masses want. A brand new one already feels already 3 years old compared to one of the competitors models, they cost more, are not the right badge and many of the dealers are rubbish / hard work. The die hard Alfa fans (of which I am one - more of an illness / state of mind) struggle because none of the new Alfas really appeal (Giulia QV apart - but for that kind of money I would have a large choice and I would like something with less doors and coupe like) so as far as I see it the only people buying Alfas now are anyone who would have bought a Saab and those trying to buck the trend... It will be very sad to loose them, but they can not survive like this, their future relied on Sergio Marchionne and his vision for Alfa, without him I think they're doooooomed - Mike Manley does not share Marchionne's vision for Alfa.... The current range (limited as it is) are good cars (if you like that kind of thing) so why is no one buying? Perhaps they need to find the answer to that to move forwards...
 

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I believe Alfa has a "911" problem. Die hard afficiados said: If you are going to sell SUV:s, I will never by a 911 again.
Perhaps they didn`t - who cares?

I.e. Alfa need to take the knowledge and - proven - ability, to develop vehicles with Best In Class performance- in various classes - without going over the top, because that cost money.

Giulia and Stelvio was purposedly over the top - now Alfa need to do the economical best in class performance re. engine/handling.
I am a die hard Alfa fan - the fact Alfa have made an SUV does not bother me. I would not buy one, but understand why they have to make one. For me a SUV is not a car I would buy, I do not see the point of them, but each to their own. But even if that were the case I do not think there are enough of us die hard fans to keep Alfa afloat even if we all ordered brand new Giulias today. The fact is Alfa have not made a car that has appealed to us for a number of years. The Giulia is trying to be a 3 series, for that reason it comes down to economics - who will give me the best deal at the moment Audi are giving me stonking deals that Alfa can't get near so I have an Audi it's a good car, if Alfa started offering the best deal I would get one, or a BMW, or a Volvo or whoever - they're all good cars. That's the problem with modern cars they're all pretty much the same and quite bland.I cherish my 86 GTV6 for me it is the pinnacle of motoring, a truly unqiue car. To appeal to die hard fans Alfa need to start building unique cars again with incredible high revving engines, brilliant handling, and good looks (not like a rounded off Audi). We do not care about any of the practical stuff!
 

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I hear you....and agree to a certain extent.....but you know as well as me that would be an enthusiast car and NEVER sell in the volumes that ALFA need...…(exhibit A your Honour ...ALFA 4C!). Lets face it the Giulia and the SUV are good cars ….but neither of them are great cars and as said they are both three years or more behind anything cutting edge....in fact they were not cutting edge (technology wise at least) even when they launched. Im going to buy a Giulia....but a lots of the reason I'm buying it is because I'm an Alfa fan not because I thing that its the best in class. To be honest I would probably not even have the Giulia in my top three if I wasn't slightly ALFA addicted!!! That decision would be based on their poor dealer network and dealer standards, lack of model choice and, now, suspect build quality....rust on the roof joints of nearly new Giulias….or even 2020 models sat in showrroms as reported by another forum member is not a good sign for their future durability.
 
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