Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 84 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
With the 4C being cancelled, and the 8C and GTV being dropped from the product road map, the car media all over the internet are proclaiming Alfa is on its dying legs and are on their way to be being flushed down the toilet of history just like Lancia. Who knows at best they may end up like Lancia, with just a single crappy PSA/Jeep based car sold only in Italy..

How did we get here? was it the 1970's poor quality and rust horror show that started the decline or ownership under Fiat with lack of investment since the early noughties coinciding with the rise and rise of the German brands?

Tonale is still due in 2021 will it arrive or will it be cancelled first?

Feeling very sad as I do like my 916 Spider..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,553 Posts
Anything that isn't going anywhere will get left behind, fall by the roadside and rot. I sincerely hope that Alfa is going somewhere preferably towards a new and brighter future but only time will tell
 

·
AO Detailing COTY Winner 2018
Joined
·
402 Posts
A troubled brand...

From the news stories and sales figures, it seems fairly clear to me that Fiat Chrysler are actively repositioning/retrenching the Alfa brand. That normally means rationalising the product range, reducing new product investment and retreating from less profitable territories.

Arguably, Alfa Romeo has spent the last 50 years trying (without much success) to become a mainstream rather than niche brand, beyond its home market where it has always sold relatively well. The Alfasud (1971) was perhaps the first serious attempt to do that, then Fiat's acquisition of the brand (1986) heralded a further simplification, with the end of the rear-drive transaxle cars and a tighter integration with Fiat's cheaper front-drive platforms.

New 'Fiat/Chrysler aligned' models (MiTo, Giulietta) failed to sell well and FCA is essentially a mainstream volume producer who are understandably uncomfortable 'nursing' their (still stubbornly niche!) Alfa brand.

Perhaps they're preparing to sell it. If so, that could either prove to be Alfa's death knell or its reinvention...


.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,120 Posts
The view from one USA poster, Zinhead in Chicago:

"I will be the contrarian and say the PSA merger will help Alfa in the US. PSA has been looking for a way to get their product into the USA, and all of the Fiat/Alfa/Maserati Studios would be ideal to sell some Peugeot's and possibly Citroens. Adding a line of vehicles that don't compete directly with what the Italians are selling will allow Alfa to maintain a US presence and to profitably sell cars in the 10,000 to 15,000 range annually."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,261 Posts
Alfa don’t make the 916 Spider any more. The world has changed and the Agnelli family spent some money making some new cars with a better profit margin in sectors they thought complemented the products of potential suitors. The amount of money the family has gained in share value exceeds that expenditure. This whole process of the takeover was supposed to happen before the Giulia and Stelvio needed product freshening. If you look at PSA and Renault, who were interested , both lack the ability to market premium cars and could buy into the area with Alfa Romeo, not with a new Giulietta or Mito.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
218 Posts
When FIAT bought Alfa in 1986, it was forced to use the SAAB/Lancia/ Fiat architecture for 164 - almost. Alfa got away with tilting the McPherson struts to horizontal ( to get lower front) and introduce their rear suspension. I.e. each vehicle has its own rear suspension since Lancia marketing did not accept the SAAB rear suspension which had won a competition on ice in northern Sweden.

The 9000 lived for many years and is supposedly "best SAAB ever". Croma and Thema were replaced within some years, while Alfa had to live with 164/166 for many years - which did not help the Brand.

I Believe PSA/FCA will use Alfa as a "door opener" for the Brand - and other cars - but with limited models. To my mind: Giulia, Stelvio and Tonale are givens, but probably supported with " a little syster" to Giulia - Giulietta? - and possibly a convertible.

A Giulietta would - probably - be based on Tonale architecture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
218 Posts
Antti, FIAT forced Alfa, to build 164 on SAAB/Lancia/FIAT partly common architecture. Alfa cheated a bit and modified as described above. Most obvious part is the housing of the climate system - SAAB was responsibel for that. SAAB chose Swedish supplier - FIAT/Lancia/Alfa Italian.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
218 Posts
Yes, FIAT had to pay SAAB for Alfa also using common architecture - above SAAB, FIAT, Lancia - which was the original agreement.. I was there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,261 Posts
Reorganising
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/fca-axes-alfa-romeos-planned-sports-cars-it-shrinks-brand

“FCA CEO Mike Manley disclosed the plans to “refocus” Alfa Romeo during the automaker’s third-quarter earnings call with analysts on Oct. 31.

“I fundamentally believe in the brand but we must make sure that any investments that we make generate an appropriate return,” Manley said.

Alfa’s product plans have been scaled back to reduce capital spending and make the brand profitable, Manley said.

FCA does not publish profitably for Alfa, nor any of its brands.

Manley’s strategy for Alfa Romeo is a reversal of a strategy unveiled in June 2018 to expand the brand’s lineup to seven models by 2022 and to increase annual sales to 400,000 by then.

Alfa Romeo’s global vehicle sales fell 31 percent to 67,427 cars from January to September, according to data from market researchers JATO Dynamics.

Manley said FCA will focus Alfa Romeo in segments and markets where it has been successful. "We will also maintain the brand’s premium position," he said”.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,553 Posts
Would some one care to translate the above out of marketingspeak and into plain English?

"reduce capital spending and make the brand profitable" Does he mean that at present it is not profitable?

"focus in segments and markets where it has been successful" Which markets and which segments given the inference that over all Alfa is not currently profitable?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
377 Posts
Would some one care to translate the above out of marketingspeak and into plain English?

"reduce capital spending and make the brand profitable" Does he mean that at present it is not profitable?

"focus in segments and markets where it has been successful" Which markets and which segments given the inference that over all Alfa is not currently profitable?
FCA made a 1.4 billion (euros) loss in Europe mainly attributed to Alfa Romeo (https://www.ft.com/content/2944ffb4-fbd8-11e9-98fd-4d6c20050229). The term market I would presume means countries, so some countries may see Alfa Romeo (FCA) withdraw?
No idea which segments he refers to because the current lineup is losing money and you have to go back to the 156 to find significant sales figures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
No idea which segments he refers to because the current lineup is losing money and you have to go back to the 156 to find significant sales figures.
I'm sure about this. The Mito and Giulietta seem to have sold well. At least around here I see them all over the place. Nowhere as many as VAGs or even BMW and French cars. But a very, very common sight. Specially the Giulietta. I see more of them than I ever saw the GT and 147. I speak of when the GT and 147 were new. Now of course you never seen them and neither I see 156s. Apart from the many Mitos and Giuliettas, I see the eventual 159 and a couple of days a year a Brera.

On a different note, I think the Giulietta is aging much better than the 147 or 156 did. Even though it's now "old" it still looks nice and is still considered pretty by most normal Joes on the street, even if they aren't Alfa fans.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,188 Posts
On a different note, I think the Giulietta is aging much better than the 147 or 156 did. Even though it's now "old" it still looks nice and is still considered pretty by most normal Joes on the street, even if they aren't Alfa fans.
I think that's true. There hasn't been the same step-change in fashion in the last ten years, and C-class hatches aren't drastically different from the way they were. Therefore the Giulietta'e external styling hasn't really dated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
I think that's true. There hasn't been the same step-change in fashion in the last ten years, and C-class hatches aren't drastically different from the way they were. Therefore the Giulietta'e external styling hasn't really dated.
Yes, agreed.

Another Alfa which in my opinion is aging well is the GT. Maybe it's because of the high waist line with the smaller green house compared to the 147. But I think it still looks nice too. Especially the late ones and special editions with the upgraded lights. The creases and style is still in today with BMWs, Giulia etc.

If that car had been RWD and had a GTA or or even a AWD Q4 version with the Busso, it would give a BMW M2 a run for it's money even today. Alfa wasted so many great designs and potential on Fiat platforms. Alfa GT, GTV 916, 166 should all have been RWD or at least a Q4. Especially Q4 wouldn't be a big deal to make as there were related cars in the family which had it. But lack of vision and initiative has been Alfa's main problem in the last 25 years, up till the Giulia.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,261 Posts
“The Mito and Giulietta seem to have sold well. At least around here I see them all over the place.”

Perhaps because it’s the cumulative bunch of cars from many years of sales?
But the Giulia and Stelvio have been on the market for three years or so and not many have accumulated.
 
1 - 20 of 84 Posts
Top