Alfa Romeo Forum banner

121 - 140 of 169 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,757 Posts
I agree with the comment about how we shouldn't have to renew possessions every year or two for no good reason (except that the old ones often fall apart because of planned obsolescence due, in large part, to unsound money). Not with the "more natural" way of life bit, though. A "natural way of life" is a very wasteful way of life - we need very "unnatural" lives for billions of people to survive well. Of course, fewer people is the other way, but even if that's feasible, it'll take several decades to centuries.
That is, in a way, what you are saying with regard to knowledge and skills - knowledge and skills are what enable us to live "unnaturally".
I think we agree..

i will simply replace ''Natural'' with ''sustainable''

I often type out loud, without being aware that sometimes what I mean to express and what I say can easily be interpreted in a number of ways...:paperbag:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,757 Posts
It's doom-mongering talk like that which causes economic downturns
and puts people out of jobs.

:tut:

It may be camouflaged as sarcasm but is clearly a reference to ''another thread'' which will bremain nameless, I see no point in taking a statement out of context from this thread and applying it to a completely different and unrelated topic in order to try and score cheap points against a fellow forum member who withdrew from that thread because it had become entirely partisan.

my view on a slowing down of the consumer machine is about a move to a more egalitarian society in the longer term and has nothing remotely to do with any other ''subject''


or is it your intention to hound and bully anyone who doesn't agree with you of any thread you like...?

I withdrew from that ''discussion'' for a reason ..I suggest you respect that fact instead of subtly trying to reference it elsewhere..





:banghead:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,319 Posts
What camouflage ?

All these topics are related.

The more the nationalists get their way, the greater our global woes will become.

Mark my words.



Do you think a New-British government will be more, or less likely to stop
the UK from being the dirty man of Europe post Brexit?
:confused:

I think we can more or less write the UK off from any current or future
pollution reduction targets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,126 Posts
It may be camouflaged as sarcasm but is clearly a reference to ''another thread'' which will bremain nameless, I see no point in taking a statement out of context from this thread and applying it to a completely different and unrelated topic in order to try and score cheap points against a fellow forum member who withdrew from that thread because it had become entirely partisan.

my view on a slowing down of the consumer machine is about a move to a more egalitarian society in the longer term and has nothing remotely to do with any other ''subject''


or is it your intention to hound and bully anyone who doesn't agree with you of any thread you like...?

I withdrew from that ''discussion'' for a reason ..I suggest you respect that fact instead of subtly trying to reference it elsewhere..



:banghead:
It might be sarcasm, it might be irony, it might be both but I wouldn't necessarily take it as a personal dig.

I agree very much with almost all of the points you make in your posts in this thread today - consumerism is the problem. Most politicians strive after constant 'growth' as an aim in itself.
Obviously we can't have constant growth and the continuing failure to accept this is the real problem facing the world. We need somehow to reach some kind of sustainable equilibrium which (if at all possible) will require a complete reset of the way most of us think and the systems we live under.
That's why I (cue great derision and hilarity) usually vote Green (not because they have all the answers, but they at least seem able to see the big problem).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,238 Posts
Can't really follow the stuff about "yes, there's a problem but we shouldn't make too much fuss about it" or "there's an even bigger problem with new builds than emissions." If emissions from energy use are a problem then either:

(a) we do something or
(b) we do nothing.

If (a) then governments need to act.

Simple really.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,757 Posts
What camouflage ?

All these topics are related.

The more the nationalists get their way, the greater our global woes will become.

Mark my words.



Do you think a New-British government will be more, or less likely to stop
the UK from being the dirty man of Europe post Brexit?
:confused:

I think we can more or less write the UK off from any current or future
pollution reduction targets.

firstly..

if you want to take that view EVERYTHING is related somehow, but that wasn't your point, you were having a dig plain and simple, don't try and retroactively justify it by giving it some post comment thought and trying to contextualize it.

nice try but no biscuit.

there was no reason to reference what you think my opinion may or may not be on another thread in this context of this debate, other than to have that little dig..

happy now?

good.

and secondly pollution reduction targets on the whole don't work as they are generally based on fiscal penalties ,so the companies that have to deal with them just put up their prices and pass the tax on to the consumer.

the only winner is the government. everyone else loses.


what is required is a sustained and gradual re-think of our entire monetary system and attitude to consumerism..to give an analogy, when you have a headache you can take a pain killer or try and treat the cause.

the pain killer will work quickly treating the symptom for a while, much like pollution controls and taxes do, what you need to do is treat the problem which is basically that we are making to much mess manufacturing things we do not require to live. we need to clean our act up. if we do that combined with a move towards cleaner and more sustainable energy sources then we will not need the controls and taxes levied on companies.

its going to take over a hundred years to implement the cultural and fiscal change required to do it, and that's the problem, most humans are concerned with the consequences that will befall them in their own lifetime so defer the decision and therefore the worsening situation to the next generation.

that can't go on much longer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,319 Posts
Firstly, I feel no need to justify myself to you, joeymannero.

Secondly...


No, that it. If you don't like it hit the ignore.







Oh, pollution target in the EU were set by the EU.

The fact Britain is still getting hammered with fines just goes to show how uk.gov failed
to curb pollution. (And waste/landfill, recycling and have a coherent energy policy etc etc etc.)

UK faces £300m fine over failure to meet air pollution targets by 2010 | Climate Change | Environment | The Independent

Rubbish fines are costing councils millions of pounds - BBC News


All the good stuff.


At least now Brexit has been decided New Britain can step-up and solve all of these problem in
a robust and timely manner. Huzzah!

Alternatively they'll be a massive spike in UK pollution.
Time will tell, I guess.


Good luck with the solar/wind strategy over there! :thumbs:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,757 Posts
Firstly, I feel no need to justify myself to you, joeymannero.

Secondly...


No, that it. If you don't like it hit the ignore.







Oh, pollution target in the EU were set by the EU.

The fact Britain is still getting hammered with fines just goes to show how uk.gov failed
to curb pollution. (And waste/landfill, recycling and have a coherent energy policy etc etc etc.)

UK faces £300m fine over failure to meet air pollution targets by 2010 | Climate Change | Environment | The Independent

Rubbish fines are costing councils millions of pounds - BBC News


All the good stuff.


At least now Brexit has been decided New Britain can step-up and solve all of these problem in
a robust and timely manner. Huzzah!

Alternatively they'll be a massive spike in UK pollution.
Time will tell, I guess.


Good luck with the solar/wind strategy over there! :thumbs:
wasn't aware this was a brexit thread..but you seem determined to make it so...

as far as justifying yourself to me , well I didn't ask you too and would not expect it given your general lack of ability to either empathize ,or in fact do anything but find a way to express your dissatisfaction at the outcome of the referendum and post anything you find to support that position however tenuously relevant it may be to the the debate or indeed how much of it is pure conjecture.

I believe they call that confirmation bias?

if you want to stick around and discuss the issue at hand fine ,but blaming brexit for everything is wearing a little thin.

just a final point before I hit the ignore button, i have no problem at all with your politics or your choice in the referendum, never did with anyone's actual vote.

what I have a problem with is the ill grace with which many of the remain camp have taken the result and the continued desire to badger ,challenge harass anyone who voted the other way, your posts today being the perfect example. its YOU who choose to start with the sarcasm and brexit references not I.

my opinion on this subject has been balanced and fair but you haven't even been able to contain your desire to leave voter bash on a thread that didn't really require brexit as a point of reference to further the debate, and further when in this country has anyone been required to retroactively justify their vote ?

this is the first time I have posted on anything WOT since electing to leave the brexit thread and you ignored every part of my posts except the bit that allowed to once again to express your dissatisfaction at the outcome.

I'm not your enemy, I merely put my X in a different box to the one you would have had you had the opportunity to vote and have had noting but hassle from you and a couple of others since.

let it go, otherwise the only conclusion I can come to is that any thread I post on you will take comments out of context to have another pop.

go ahead of you want...it's still a free country.

But if that's not prejudice ,I don't know what is..!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,126 Posts
Sarcasm is allowed, as is referencing other threads, try not to take it personally :).
Wouldn't it be better to debate the points in hand - in this case whether the problems identified in this thread would have more chance of being addressed by a united Europe. Do you think the EU was part of the problem and that the UK will have more success tackling these issues outside the EU?
I tend to agree with TT4N that EU membership was a positive with regard to pollution control, and that these issues are global in nature and can only be solved with international collaboration.
Let's not make this another 'Brexit' thread, but if there is a genuine overlap not be banned from mentioning it.
And please let's not personalise things. :thumbs:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,757 Posts
Sarcasm is allowed, as is referencing other threads, try not to take it personally :).
Wouldn't it be better to debate the points in hand - in this case whether the problems identified in this thread would have more chance of being addressed by a united Europe. Do you think the EU was part of the problem and that the UK will have more success tackling these issues outside the EU?
I tend to agree with TT4N that EU membership was a positive with regard to pollution control, and that these issues are global in nature and can only be solved with international collaboration.
Let's not make this another 'Brexit' thread, but if there is a genuine overlap not be banned from mentioning it.
And please let's not personalise things. :thumbs:
fair enough Chris, Couldn't agree more except that the sarcasm was designed to reference ''the other thread''

just for posterity, I didn't start it. I would be more than happy to never talk about brexit on here again..:thumbup:


I left that thread for a reason and have no desire to discuss it further but somehow my presence has caused it to rear its head here..

I suggest you take that up with TT4N...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,126 Posts
fair enough Chris, Couldn't agree more except that the sarcasm was designed to reference ''the other thread''

just for posterity, I didn't start it. I would be more than happy to never talk about brexit on here again..:thumbup:


I left that thread for a reason and have no desire to discuss it further but somehow my presence has caused it to rear its head here..

I suggest you take that up with TT4N...
I don't mind talking about Brexit in the climate change thread or vice versa, with or without sarcasm, as long as we can avoid personal insults and stick to debating the points in question.
:thumbs:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,650 Posts
I'm sorry but I can't see any logical reasoning in your post:read:
If you want to call me a hypocrite, fine.
I would argue that I use my V6 less than most other potential owners would and am therefore helping by keeping it, rather than passing it on to someone who would use it more :).
I probably create less emissions per year than the average motorist driving a frugal diesel.
Most of my journeys are by bicycle, I don't fly much, but I'm no holier than thou green warrior - I just have my eyes open and am not in denial.
You choose to disbelieve the evidence of man made climate change because it makes you feel better about your car habit. This is akin to a smoker denying a cancer link or an obese person denying food is the issue.
No skin off my nose, carry on if it makes you happy.:byebye:
I'm calling you a hypocrite, yes.
The fact you use your V6 for anything other than a necessary journey means you are unnecessarily adding pollution. The fact that it is an old inefficient V6 adds to that.

The 'passing it onto someone else' statement holds no water because I am referring to Chris Hendrix. That someone else may store it as a collector and never use it. The point being you have no control over what happens to that car when you do not own it and therefore are no more responsible for it than the cars I own, one which may have been one of yours previously for all you know.

Your analogy is indeed correct in my behavior is no different to a smoker who does not believe the cigarette is causing him or her bad health. I too would be a hypocrite if I owned three cars (two, 95% for none essential use) when I only need one and not all the time and then believed in man made climate change.

a couple of points,

the manufacture of a new car produces much more pollution in the production of plastics,rubber,steel, and the multiple other materials used in a modern car than the car you currently have will produce in the rest of its usable life in emissions. so keep the V6. replacing it with anew car is far more damaging to the environment than keeping it as it will have to be ''recycled'' so it will be melted down, and some bits will go in landfill..very green. not.

scrapping vehicles under 10 years old or entering into a PCP agreement and getting a new car every 3-5 years is a big part of this problem as we now have this attitude towards everything we own, driven by a consumer culture that has been propagated by big business and governments for the last 60 years.
I agree Joey, I was not for one minute suggesting Chris or anyone else buys a brand new car. That said if you intend to keep that brand new car for a long time then it's probably no different in the long term. My point was, new or old Chris uses his V6 for pleasure and not necessity.

Oh, pollution target in the EU were set by the EU.

The fact Britain is still getting hammered with fines just goes to show how uk.gov failed
to curb pollution. (And waste/landfill, recycling and have a coherent energy policy etc etc etc.)

UK faces £300m fine over failure to meet air pollution targets by 2010 | Climate Change | Environment | The Independent

Rubbish fines are costing councils millions of pounds - BBC News


All the good stuff.


At least now Brexit has been decided New Britain can step-up and solve all of these problem in
a robust and timely manner. Huzzah!

Alternatively they'll be a massive spike in UK pollution.
Time will tell, I guess.


Good luck with the solar/wind strategy over there! :thumbs:
It's all France's nuclear waste we're storing :lol:

We can't use solar energy up North because we're missing a vital ingredient. Wind however we have plenty of and from various sources. :teacher:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,769 Posts
Britain won't use renewables now we've discovered we can frack the entire country.

And fracking means some fat cats who are already drowning in their own cash, can get even more cash.

Take the case to Downing Street that some astonishingly rich people can get even richer and increase the Tory donations, then you can go fracking on any greenbelt land, brownfield site, SPA, SPC, UNESCO WHS, SSSI, or indeed anyone's house. Just slam it through parliament as a series of small correlative legislative points, and the Peak District and North Yorkshire Moors are yours to frack. :thumbs:

Not only that, but I bet the revenue won't be reinvested in renewables like our Nordic cousins do. Nope, we will be blowing it on covering the costs of new nukes, blundering it on bombing Syria and squandering it on personal pet projects like HS-2-nowhere. :thumbs:

That is assuming of course, we can get them to pay tax. I'm sure we could get HMRC to get a few quid back from the Bahamas when they send it there.
 
121 - 140 of 169 Posts
Top