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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As most of you know, I tend to take the hound for a fairly long walk on Saturday mornings. This usually takes in various routes, many of which I've been walking on for 10-15 years or more.

This morning I found that what used to be a path on one of them is now a stream. The actual stream runs down a hill and through a culvert, and has done for many years. The culvert can no longer handle the flow of water and the result is pictured below. A fortnight ago, it was unchanged from the last 20 times I've walked there. I see this sort of thing all the time and it worries me.

Forget, for a moment, the alleged wisdom of cretins like Clarkson, forget that you like cars, can you tell me, hand-on-heart, that you don't believe the climate is changing as a result of man's actions?
 

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I think the climate is changing, I first thought that in the early 1990s but it's been changing constantly since the planet formed and got an atmosphere. What's man made and what's natural.. that is what I'm in two or three minds about.

What really annoys me is being called names because I have doubts about it ! Climate change denier, sound like holocaust denier when it's spat out by some devout to the cause tree hugger. I suspect we will have no say in how it turns out, just hang on, it's gonna be a bumpy ride. :)
 

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I think the climate is changing, I first thought that in the early 1990s but it's been changing constantly since the planet formed and got an atmosphere. What's man made and what's natural.. that is what I'm in two or three minds about.
The world has been getting warmer since the last ice age.

Whether we are accelerating the rate it is warming is another matter.

The flooding we have around here is pretty bad but I have seen it worse on a few occasions.
 

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My latest theory is that the climate is changing because there are so many microwave , radio wave and mobile phone waves in the air that we are cooking . But I could be wrong .
 

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10 - 15 years is a pretty short time frame to judge global changes.........

If you saw the destruction on Aberystwyth prom from the storms its looks pretty certain that the "worst storm ever" has wrought the damage........until you look at the footage from 20+ years ago which was much worse.......

I've no doubt that we have some influence on the planet's development, but what proportion of any change is down to man as opposed to natural changes is a debate that won't be proved by one man's observation of a bit of local erosion....
 

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The more houses, car parks, shopping centres that are built, the less land there is to absorb rainfall and fill the natural aquifers.

Just imagine how much water the site of a single, large Tesco and it's car park would absorb, now the same amount of water is diverted straight into it's drains.....now extrapolate that Countrywide.

This run off goes into the drains (if they can cope) and also into rivers, stream, culverts etc.

The increase of concrete (and therefore reduction of fields/brown sites) as well as building on flood plains, has more to do with the level of flooding than CFCs and exhaust emissions.

KB think about your walk, has there been any new buildings in the last 10-15 where once were fields/open spaces?
 

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It's only, what, about 250yrs since the start of the industrial revolution.

Prior to that we were a rural-based people, insular in nature. Subsequently we have developed manufacturing, machinery, chemicals, powered systems, water to steam to electricity, from wood to coal and oil to nuclear. Our concept of the world has developed from village to village in 1750 to global, capitalistic, industry and commerce a mere 150yrs later.

In all that short amount of time the impact of mankind has become staggering. The construction, as Wokie says, is never going to die back - it's here to stay and there are clear technical, structural implications when you cover large swathes of land in concrete, deforest massive areas of jungle etc. The impact of pollution is profound and has been for yonks now.

Man-made climate change is strange in that a lot of people (ordinary people) argue a lot about whether it exists or not. I'm sure that my lifespan is too narrow a window for analysis, but I'm of the understanding that the chemistry behind the hypothesis is sound. Greenhouse gases do work in that way. The results are predictable over time and, guess what, the ice caps are melting just like the computer projections have consistently said they would.

Regarding Camel's point....we could stop buying the cheap crap from China......but we won't.

I was driving along today and I wondered......how come we all often have enough to buy the latest blu-ray,or a magazine about cars - but trains are too expensive for working class people to take a trip on? We got hooked on the consumerist fantasy.
 

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The more houses, car parks, shopping centres that are built, the less land there is to absorb rainfall and fill the natural aquifers.

Just imagine how much water the site of a single, large Tesco and it's car park would absorb, now the same amount of water is diverted straight into it's drains.....now extrapolate that Countrywide.

This run off goes into the drains (if they can cope) and also into rivers, stream, culverts etc.

The increase of concrete (and therefore reduction of fields/brown sites) as well as building on flood plains, has more to do with the level of flooding than CFCs and exhaust emissions.

KB think about your walk, has there been any new buildings in the last 10-15 where once were fields/open spaces?
That's what it seems like when you are walking or driving around at ground level , but when you are approaching time to land at Gatwick or Heathrow . It's amazing how much grass or soil you can still see . Has the drainage been changed by farming ? The land appears to be covered in cars when you are in one , but it isn't.
 

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Average global temp correlates to the number of pirates
in operation around the world.

With the increase in piracy off the coast of East Africa
there is no surprise in the increase in global
temperature.

:)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
10 - 15 years is a pretty short time frame to judge global changes.........

If you saw the destruction on Aberystwyth prom from the storms its looks pretty certain that the "worst storm ever" has wrought the damage........until you look at the footage from 20+ years ago which was much worse.......

I've no doubt that we have some influence on the planet's development, but what proportion of any change is down to man as opposed to natural changes is a debate that won't be proved by one man's observation of a bit of local erosion....
Even if it's me Richard?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
It's only, what, about 250yrs since the start of the industrial revolution.

Prior to that we were a rural-based people, insular in nature. Subsequently we have developed manufacturing, machinery, chemicals, powered systems, water to steam to electricity, from wood to coal and oil to nuclear. Our concept of the world has developed from village to village in 1750 to global, capitalistic, industry and commerce a mere 150yrs later.

In all that short amount of time the impact of mankind has become staggering. The construction, as Wokie says, is never going to die back - it's here to stay and there are clear technical, structural implications when you cover large swathes of land in concrete, deforest massive areas of jungle etc. The impact of pollution is profound and has been for yonks now.

Man-made climate change is strange in that a lot of people (ordinary people) argue a lot about whether it exists or not. I'm sure that my lifespan is too narrow a window for analysis, but I'm of the understanding that the chemistry behind the hypothesis is sound. Greenhouse gases do work in that way. The results are predictable over time and, guess what, the ice caps are melting just like the computer projections have consistently said they would.

Regarding Camel's point....we could stop buying the cheap crap from China......but we won't.

I was driving along today and I wondered......how come we all often have enough to buy the latest blu-ray,or a magazine about cars - but trains are too expensive for working class people to take a trip on? We got hooked on the consumerist fantasy.
It's interesting to note that if you follow the stream to its starting point, you come to the massive Tesco in Prestwich. There's a TFI Fridays there too. *******s.
 
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Not being very scholarly on environmental issues, it does appear apparent to me, that over the years & years, man has been pumping noxious substances into the atmosphere and that has to have some effect to a degree on the ozone layer that protects us.
I was reading somewhere that where I live in East Anglia, this place will be the 1st to be a desert in 000's of years to come.
 

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The more houses, car parks, shopping centres that are built, the less land there is to absorb rainfall and fill the natural aquifers.

Just imagine how much water the site of a single, large Tesco and it's car park would absorb, now the same amount of water is diverted straight into it's drains.....now extrapolate that Countrywide.
That's what it seems like when you are walking or driving around at ground level , but when you are approaching time to land at Gatwick or Heathrow . It's amazing how much grass or soil you can still see . Has the drainage been changed by farming ? The land appears to be covered in cars when you are in one , but it isn't.
It is an interesting question. Here's the answer:
BBC News - The great myth of urban Britain

(Or at least an answer. And a very surprising one.)

I have little doubt Milo is correct on a local level though.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Mental note for Mr Dunamis

1) ankles
2) flooding
3) pollution
4) capitalism
If you got your arse to a AONW breakfast meet, Mr D would be able to sort you out I'm sure.
 
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