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Discussion Starter #1
I am real worried and do not know what is going on with my 146. I had a long conversation with turbonutters on the telephone. Thank you very much for your help and my patients over the telephone. I have the tendency to stress and worry myself sick over the smallest things in life…. Thanks to an episode a few years earlier that happened in my life due to post dramatic stress. It happens in the SAPS. But that is a story for another time….

My car has had this issue ever since I collected her of a slight stutter and a miss. I noticed this the morning I left Pretoria as well as when I drove from off when collecting her. Hennie informed me about this and requested me to get her mapped properly.

The trip went fairly well with no hiccups or drama except the stutter and miss now and then. But overall she behaved really well!!!!
The problem now is that the stutter and miss is getting worse and worse to such an extent that I cannot even drive her anymore. Let me begin:

1) When cold or hot she starts up with no problem at all. She hardly cranks and then she starts and she idles so smoothly like a kitty cat. She does give a puff of black smoke with a back fire.
2) As soon as I rev her or touch the accelerator she starts to stutter and miss. No matter what I do she will not rev pass 3500 RPM.
3) When I drive she has the stutter and miss and cannot go past 80 KM/H.

I have tried the following possible solutions as Carlo told me over the telephone:

I unplugged the two extra injectors as well as disconnected the actuator bar on the turbo to prevent her from boosting. I remember Hennie telling me that the Gotech is mapped to provide fueling during vacuum to keep the EGT down and for cooling. I had the feeling that she was over fueling hence the back smoke and backfire. As soon as I disconnected the extra injectors and the actuator bar the black smoke and back fire has disappeared. By doing this I presume that she is running the same as a N/A twin spark motor.

The problem is that she still has the stutter and miss. I have also replaced the big spark plugs with an extra spare set I had lying around as myself and Carlo suspected that the plugs might have been thrown dead by the extra fuel. But still the problem is not solved. The stutter and miss is still there and she wont rev more that 3000 RPM. Even getting her to 3000Rpm is an effort.

I am totally worried and stressed like hell about the car.

I have also done an ECU reset with Fiat Ecu Scan.
I feel like leaving her in my garage for the next year and downing my sorrows……
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

I need help please!!!!!!!!
 

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What management are you running?

I'm not so sure about the TS motors and their management anymore - but on the V6 I've had this problem too.

Check your lambda sensors. Check your MAF. Check your crank angle sensor. It might also be that your map on the management is just acting up. But either way, it will be something electronic. If it's getting worse, I suspect lambda sensors most. My car with a faulty lambda sensor was insanely bad - same symptoms as you describe.

May also be a faulty coil-pack.

With these kind of things it's extremely hard to pin-point the faults.

Good luck!
 

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My first reaction would be spark plugs, too much fuel kill them, but you have done that.
Does this car still have a cat? Over fueling would block it so that only small amounts of gas gets through - no reving. Over fueling could have killed the lambda as well.

For your peace of mind, quickly check the basics. Take all the large spark plugs out, get a helper and a compression gauge. Take the pressures, with the helper keeping the throttle open while cranking when your ready. Everything else is less important.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks everyone.

Management is still standard. Only a Gotech that manages the extra injectors thats all.

I disconnected the MAF and walla! she revs like normal again. I took her for a drive, still with the actuator bar off and extra injectors disconnected to be sfae untill she goes for a dyno and gets the fuel pressure sorted. She drives norml without any hiccups like she used to have.

Now to get a new MAF......
 

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only logged on now. Don't drive without the extra injectors, she starts boosting way to early!

My first thought was that the gotech possibly dropped the map but if MAF solves it then way to go. GET THE CAR MAPPED - I just added fuel until the EGT was safe. Get a serial USB and then you can at least see what the injectors are doing or not doing.

I will gladly take the car back if you have too many issues
 

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Waste gate is disconnected and strapped open he tested and there’s no boost.:thumbs:

I think happiness was returned after the fault was found.

Boost will stay at 0 until the FPR is fitted and it is ready for a remap.

Walter seems to be a patient person who will not take chances with his car and will keep looking until he gets to the bottom of a problem.
I can see that the car will be well sorted and cared for in future.
 

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1st off is it post dramatic stress or post traumatic stress?

My swear is a cop aswell and the stories he tells me it's amazing how good cops deal with that Ish!

At least HennieV is upright and willing to take away your misery...other ppl would have said "footstoots boet" and left you hanging dry...

I love this forum as ppl are honest and we are blessed with a wealth of knowledge, I hope it's sorted before Christmas
 
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Some times even if you have an air leak between your MAF and plennum your call will backfire and send black smoke out . I just had it on my spider as the clip on hose came off above maf .
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Happiness is restored!!!

The biggest problem was me not being able to drive the car. and the Dyno can only help me next year :cry:
It was just frustrating that's all!!!
But yes I wont give up till I find the problem. Now just to get a new MAF, fit the FPR, get the dyno.
Then I am A for away!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
EISH!!!

Just got a price from Fiat/Alfa now for a new MAF. R2480 excludng vat....
Surely there must be a way to get the sensor itself and not the complete housing?
 

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What did Bosch say?
Take a chance and get a quote on a 2.5 156 unit they play around with the costing so they might be cheaper at this stage then you just swap the probes.
 

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EISH!!!

Just got a price from Fiat/Alfa now for a new MAF. R2480 excludng vat....
Surely there must be a way to get the sensor itself and not the complete housing?
I answered this in DNA's thread on the topic:
My MAF on my GTV is broken too - happened the other night. Was accelerating quite hard then felt like I ran into the rev-limiter at around 4500rpm, like driving into a wall. Engine light came on and has stayed on. Damn. I've been through so many MAF sensors with my car it's not funny. Last time round I paid R2400 odd for the sensor. This is a proper rip-off in my eyes.

Checked now - the MAF sensor itself, inside the canister, has part number F 00C 2G2 030 - exactly the same sensor as a 2.0 TS one. I have 3 canisters, so I will just buy a new sensor. Just to see from where - there are a few websites that sell the sensors, the real Bosch part, for under 90 pounds. This equates to a massive saving. I want to go to the Bosch Service Center around the corner first to find out how much they would charge for said part number. If they can't beat it, I will buy online. In the meantime the car just has to run with the sensor unplugged.

It's a complete rip-off that they can charge what they do for this MAF for the V6s. Really. How can the same sensor cost so much more just because it has a different canister? And why do I have to buy the whole canister again? Just another way of making money out of the uninformed I think.
 

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The problem is that not even Bosch wanted to sell the probe separately as far as I remember.
As stated in another post Alfa is one of the cheapest as far as MAF’s are concerned. GM use the same unit on the isuzu and other cars but want more than R10 000 for exactly the same unit so thank you Alfa for being a bit more realistic with the cost of a MAF.
Whatever you do don’t waste your money on the rip-off units out there they do not work properly. Some of the units with the same part number are not fitted with the temp sensor so be careful.
The real question is why are your GTV eating MAF’s. Even with a K&N replacement installed my GTV’s MAF lasted 100 000km and still goings strong.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I've just phoned bosch. No where in the country do have the sensor only. They checked on the system and even in Germany they do not have it. The complete unit for the 156 is almost R400 nore expensive than the 146.

So I reckon it is going to be "die wet van Transvaal" [email protected] en betaal lol!!!!

To be safe I would rather order it from my local Alfa dealer. Not sure if a person can trust those websites. I've also found a few sites selling the sensor only and it is about 80 pounds. What do you guys think? Should I take the chance or just order from Alfa/Fiat
 

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Order the OE unit from the agents and get it over with.
We did extensive testing on alternatives and only the oe unit works properly.
Like I said get quotes for the 145, 146(1999 or 2000), 156, 147 and GTV maf then you buy the cheapest one they are all the same apart from the casing on the 2.5 and 3.0.
You will be surprised with the difference in price at a stage there were almost R800.00 difference between them.:thumbs:
 

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I answered this in DNA's thread on the topic:
My MAF on my GTV is broken too - happened the other night.
Alfaqaud, does you and DNA run a cone filters?

If so? At one stage when Dawie saw my car he said I must take the cone filter off. The resonance from the flter is going to kill the MAF. I am using it like that for more than 60k kilometers without a problem. But my filter does not sit next to my MAF, and different filters/setups may have a different effect/sound/resonance.

This is unknown territory for me and because I didn't have a problem, I was thinking water that comes in might be the problem.
 
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Most MAF usually go after services because when the guys change the air filter they don't clean the dust out the bottom of the filter housing so on start up the remaining dust goes straight into MAF destroying it .
As mentioned above non standard air boxes also destroy the MAF - I was told this from a friend who used to own a alfa garage .
 
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