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I'm quite fond of a train now and then and definitely like the idea of one that does two hundred and thrumpty miles an hour.

Is the proposed High Speed 2 line, between London and Brum going to be worth the £32 billion that has been quoted to build it?
How much of an underestimate is that figure?

Is it worth destroying masses of countryside for the benefit of people in urban areas?
How many hospitals, schools, or affordable housing could be built with that money?

Is anyone in favour? If so, why?
 

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The HS2 line will pass within 2 miles of me in Warwickshire, it won't directly affect me though. :) I think it's a good idea, building for the future and all that. I would like it to stop nearby but it will go past and into Brum so little economic benefit to us. It's about time we have a train system worthy of the 21st century, the current train network is pretty dreadful.
 

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If you want to make trains work then ironically the biggest improvement you can make is not to the tracks, it is the infrastructure around getting to the train itself - commuting to the station, parking, public road transport etc.

No point getting the journey time from Birmingham to London down under an hour if it takes you an hour to drive from home, park up and get on the train.
 

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It's hardly a Concorde type saving in travel time and who needs to go the Brum that quickly anyway. If they want to increase capacity why not go for the double decker option for the carriages? It might mean digging out some of the tunnels to get enough clearance, but I'll bet it would be a sight cheaper and quicker to implement than HS2. It would benefit the whole country not just the west Midlanders/Londoners.
 

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I suspect the overriding case comes from the link with HS1 and the Channel Tunnel. Flying from Europe to the UK is fast becoming a nightmare. Direct, regular, reliable and fast train travel between major European cities is becoming increasingly attractive to the business customer. It's they who bring money into our economy.
 

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I understand that even places like Morocco was more miles of HS lines than we have, we are certainly falling behind, again, when it comes to train travel.

To increase capacity of existing trains would could a lot of money increasing platform lengths Etc. Using double deckers, like the French is nigh on impossible since many of the intercity trains run on the overhead pickups. Then the are the low bridges and tunnels to sort out, so thats not really an option.

All of my recent travel to Europe recently has been by train and that includes South Of France, Italy and Holland; it so so much easier than flying.

Is it worth having HS2, hmmm?
 
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I imagine that by the time it actually happens the budget will probably double. There was a clown on the radio the other day talking about the budget for the olympics. He was banging on about how great it is that the budget of £9.3 billion set in 2007 is looking realistic (though the NAO may not agree) and conveniently forgetting that the original budget estimate was £2.3 billion. This will go the same way as did Wembley (and probably every other government building project).

It seems bizarre to spend £32 billion+ on one rail link when the rest of the network is falling to pieces and the government is constantly telling us that the rail netwrok needs to pay for itself. Will this £32 billion investment bring £32 billion in increased revenue to UK businesses or investment from businesses outside the UK? We desperately need a much better integrated public transport system to get some of the traffic off our congested roads but I don't think this will deliver it.
 

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I am unconvinced.

Will people that grew up with Web 2.0 Social Networking in the womb really going to need to cross Europe to see the whites of peoples eyes before doing business with them?

If you or I time that 6 hour cross country drive where we get into the car at our house and pull up outside our friend's house on their drive gain a few minutes as we've left at midnight, the roads have been quieter and we've made a bit more progress than usual have we really gained that much?

So they'd gain 5-10 minutes on a train to then lose it because of some council implemented road layout in a city centre that seems specifically designed to deter people entering that city by car has delayed their taxi by a similar amount?

All those business people will get on the bus from the railway station to their business meetings?

Sell benefits, not features. The benefit is?

I am finding it dificult not to compare it with big defence procurement projects. It'll provide work but will there be a need for the result?

My personal scales are weighing up this expenditure for what we got for the Harriers or what this country has urinated away on foreign wars over the last decade.
 

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It doesn't affect me personally, but my sympathies lie with those who will have it ploughing through, or near to, their properties. Apart from which, do we need it and can we afford it? I fear the answer is no on both counts.
 

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I am finding it dificult not to compare it with big defence procurement projects. It'll provide work but will there be a need for the result?
I've highlighted this part of your reply as I think you are spot on.
 
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HS1 services Kent, but is of no use to me. None the less as a result regular commuter services on my line have been cutback and we have had OTT price rises the last few years, with the excuse being investment in HS1. I expect the same will happen to regular commuter services around this new route too.

The government wants to reduce taxpayer burden on rail fares and push it to the commuter, yet is happy to pour money into these pet projects. £32bn would be better used if invested in the existing services, upgrading decrepit rolling stock and resolving the numerous signal failures that regular passengers have to deal with.
 

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And I thought the country was skint! There must be other things we can do with this sort of money.

Maybe you could save it up and buy back Scotland in 2015?:lol:
 

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I think it is about time that a government invested in the coutries infrastructure.

Not so sure about HS2, but they should certainly invest more in the existing railways and the roads.
 

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Nobody on the HS2 side seems able to produce a coherent argument on the need for
it. They say Birmingham businesses will benefit but I reckon they're likely to run the
odd train southwards so it may have a negative impact on Brummies.

I cannot see any real cost benefit.... it'll be running (supposedly) by 2018 and by then
Governments will no doubt have changed so history can be re written :rolleyes:

The only person who may benefit is Kurzon as he often travels there :lol:
 

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nobody on the hs2 side seems able to produce a coherent argument on the need for
it. They say birmingham businesses will benefit but i reckon they're likely to run the
odd train southwards so it may have a negative impact on brummies.

I cannot see any real cost benefit.... It'll be running (supposedly) by 2018 and by then
governments will no doubt have changed so history can be re written :rolleyes:

The only person who may benefit is kurzon as he often travels there :lol:
conspiracy
 
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