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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys, think this is my first post - but i've been lurking for a while.

I imported a South African 105 back in March / April - its a 1975 GT Junior 1600 in blue with brown leather. The car is in decent cosmetic condition, and starts and drives.

I completed the V55/5 form and submitted to the DVLA. I was hoping for a cost effective and straight forward process. No MOT needed, no inspection needed etc. Just the form and £55 fee.

DVLA came back, and said the status of "built-up" on the SA Registration Certificate ( as opposed to "used") means it can't be registered on its original VIN number.

They will provide a VIN number and that the car will need to go through the DVSA (Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency) for Individual Vehicle Approval. This seems a very detailed and potentially costly process, and it means the car will be a "Q" series car and attract annual road tax etc - so this is very far from ideal.

Can anybody shed any light on this? Past experience?

At the moment the demons are circling and I'm contemplating selling the car as is, unregistered.
 

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There seem to be plenty of SA cars coming over, I notice an eBay seller called "scootsandbits" sold a fair few, as "all paperwork done..." might be worth contacting him for advice, as I'm sure it can be done.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
There seem to be plenty of SA cars coming over, I notice an eBay seller called "scootsandbits" sold a fair few, as "all paperwork done..." might be worth contacting him for advice, as I'm sure it can be done.
Thanks, i've found him/her and will try get in touch.

It is very easy, if the status is "used"... i'm worried about this built up story.
 

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I feel your pain!

I registered a South African car after several attempts and the DVLA coming up with different problems each time. Stick with it, I can show you my completed forms if that helps.
 

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I registered a South African car after several attempts and the DVLA coming up with different problems each time. Stick with it, I can show you my completed forms if that helps.
Can you tell me what the "vehicle status" field said on the south african registration document? so far that is the major diverging issue...
 

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This will be a case of misinterpretation by someone in the SA export (their DVLA equivalent) authority.
All cars built in SA were originally supplied to them in CKD (completely knocked down) form by Alfa.
It was something to do with (I think), the apartheid issue.
The way I understand it, the cars were supplied as a shell, with all the bits separate. The shells were painted, and then assembled with the parts, (perhaps that's where the misinterpretation has arisen, as all cars were "built up", but still brand new), and obviously sold as new cars, but with a different vin number to all the Milan built cars. There were no records kept by the Pretoria Factory.
My Ti Super Rep was one such car, built in the Pretoria factory in 1963.
It has a "wavy-edged" vin plate, in the original position on the bulkhead, I believe all cars built in the Pretoria factory had this plate. There is no original Milan factory stamping in the bulkhead (under the wavy plate), as per all the other cars built in Milan. There were other factories in SA producing Alfa Romeo cars in this way.
We had no issues with the DVLA in gaining an age related reg number for my '63 car.
We got a letter from the Alfa Romeo Owners Club, stating the above, and that all other aspects and detail of the car relating to a 1963 model.
Suggest you have a word with Mr K N Carrington of the AROC, who put together the letter for my car to send to the DVLA. He will corroborate the above regarding the CKD building in SA.
That's all supposing that your car WAS built in SA as mine.
If your car doesn't have a Wavy ViN plate, and has original type stampings in the bulkhead, then maybe it was exported out there at some time in it's life. I'm presuming it is RHD ?

Steve
 

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'Built up' is not the same as a CKD car in South Africa. A 'built up' car in South Africa means it has at some point been de-registered by the owner because of being unfit for use. Mostly because the owner stopped using it for a long time and didn't want (or forgot) to continue paying the annual registration fee. When you restore such a car there may no longer be any records available for it and you have to register it again from scratch. In such a case it can only be coded then as 'built up' or code 3. This is completely legal though and is different from a stolen vehicle and is done through the South African Police Service. It unfortunately could mean the car does not have it's original engine anymore. The only way of knowing for sure is if the Alfa Museum could verify it (most often they are not able to for this model year). There is also no Fusi record for this model year to know about the correct series of engines, if I'm not mistaken. Your car could well be one fo the 'deluxe' junior factory models with the 2000 GTV body and 1600 engine (the 2 litre engines were removed and put in Giulia saloon race cars).

Some more useful info here:

Vehicle Codes - IVID

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
'Built up' is not the same as a CKD car in South Africa. A 'built up' car in South Africa means it has at some point been de-registered by the owner because of being unfit for use. Mostly because the owner stopped using it for a long time and didn't want (or forgot) to continue paying the annual registration fee. When you restore such a car there may no longer be any records available for it and you have to register it again from scratch. In such a case it can only be coded then as 'built up' or code 3. This is completely legal though and is different from a stolen vehicle and is done through the South African Police Service. It unfortunately could mean the car does not have it's original engine anymore. The only way of knowing for sure is if the Alfa Museum could verify it (most often they are not able to for this model year). There is also no Fusi record for this model year to know about the correct series of engines, if I'm not mistaken. Your car could well be one fo the 'deluxe' junior factory models with the 2000 GTV body and 1600 engine (the 2 litre engines were removed and put in Giulia saloon race cars).

Some more useful info here:

Vehicle Codes - IVID

Hope this helps.
This is it - I spoke to Ken from AROC and he confirmed the above, and is also kindly helping me attempt to get the correct registration.

As an aside, how could I tell whether my car is a "deluxe" junior or not?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
This will be a case of misinterpretation by someone in the SA export (their DVLA equivalent) authority.
All cars built in SA were originally supplied to them in CKD (completely knocked down) form by Alfa.
It was something to do with (I think), the apartheid issue.
The way I understand it, the cars were supplied as a shell, with all the bits separate. The shells were painted, and then assembled with the parts, (perhaps that's where the misinterpretation has arisen, as all cars were "built up", but still brand new), and obviously sold as new cars, but with a different vin number to all the Milan built cars. There were no records kept by the Pretoria Factory.
My Ti Super Rep was one such car, built in the Pretoria factory in 1963.
It has a "wavy-edged" vin plate, in the original position on the bulkhead, I believe all cars built in the Pretoria factory had this plate. There is no original Milan factory stamping in the bulkhead (under the wavy plate), as per all the other cars built in Milan. There were other factories in SA producing Alfa Romeo cars in this way.
We had no issues with the DVLA in gaining an age related reg number for my '63 car.
We got a letter from the Alfa Romeo Owners Club, stating the above, and that all other aspects and detail of the car relating to a 1963 model.
Suggest you have a word with Mr K N Carrington of the AROC, who put together the letter for my car to send to the DVLA. He will corroborate the above regarding the CKD building in SA.
That's all supposing that your car WAS built in SA as mine.
If your car doesn't have a Wavy ViN plate, and has original type stampings in the bulkhead, then maybe it was exported out there at some time in it's life. I'm presuming it is RHD ?

Steve
Thanks Steve, yep I've got a hold of Mr Carrington from AROC, he is very helpful and we are in the process of getting the docs from milan, and with a letter from him, hopefully we can follow previous precedent with the DVLA to get the correct registration.
 

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Thanks Steve, yep I've got a hold of Mr Carrington from AROC, he is very helpful and we are in the process of getting the docs from milan, and with a letter from him, hopefully we can follow previous precedent with the DVLA to get the correct registration.
Excellent, glad you have it under way with AROC.
The ;ast thing you want is a Q plate.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well its only been about a year... but there is good news afoot after a LOT of perseverance.

DVLA have eventually agreed to register it on the correct VIN number and will get an age related plate and have historic status etc.

They have stated that despite its age, they require an MOT in order to register it. I took it for an MOT and it failed as I expected it to. This was more for me to get a list of what was needing doing and see to what extent it might require any rust repair.

Its now getting the body work sorted (mainly jacking points and front driver and passenger floor pans), and will get brakes serviced and a few other smaller odd jobs resolved.

Then back for a re-test and we should be ok to re-submit the application forms to register the car.

Must admit i'm quite excited about being able to actually drive it at some point...
 

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Well done ! Really good to see that persevering can end in the right result.
Chuffed for you,
Steve
 

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I think one of the key differences (ask me how i know!) is that in South Africa if you de-register a car - kind of SORN but not SORN- if you wish to re-register, you are required to back pay all the annual road tax equivalent before registration - i had this with a 1750 GTV i inherited.

Interestingly, there is no annual MOT in South Africa and you are not required to roadworthy it (MOT equivalent) when re-registering it; this is only required if car changes hands hence why so many unroadworthy cars are driving around! Also one of the reasons why many of the imports from SA are not in good condition.

OP, I think you have been lucky with the DVLA....well done! i know others have failed where you have succeeded.
 
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