Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,640 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I spotted a brand new Rear Trailing Arm on Ebay and thought I'd take a punt. As you can't buy the main rubber bush I could at least extract it from this one. It was described as a Drivers (Off Side) rear trailing arm. But I could see it wasn't. It was pictured upside down which might have confused the seller.

Having now got it I can see why it ended up as an Ebay item. The Part Number clearly attached in 2 places is 0051799868 which ePER states is an Off Side assembly for the 4 x 4 range. It's also stamped in the metal as 51855804 (but this may be a sub assembly stamp before welding)

If you look in the attached picture you will see it's a Near Side assembly. My Sportwagon is not a 4 x 4 but this unit looks identical. I can't see on the specs that the 4 x 4 has a different geometry so I'm guessing the 4 x 4 arm has to have some clearance issues.

So maybe this is really a Near Side 4 x 2? And can be used so that I have a new unrusty arm.

Anybody able to confirm?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,824 Posts
I spotted a brand new Rear Trailing Arm on Ebay and thought I'd take a punt. As you can't buy the main rubber bush I could at least extract it from this one. It was described as a Drivers (Off Side) rear trailing arm. But I could see it wasn't. It was pictured upside down which might have confused the seller.

Having now got it I can see why it ended up as an Ebay item. The Part Number clearly attached in 2 places is 0051799868 which ePER states is an Off Side assembly for the 4 x 4 range. It's also stamped in the metal as 51855804 (but this may be a sub assembly stamp before welding)

If you look in the attached picture you will see it's a Near Side assembly. My Sportwagon is not a 4 x 4 but this unit looks identical. I can't see on the specs that the 4 x 4 has a different geometry so I'm guessing the 4 x 4 arm has to have some clearance issues.

So maybe this is really a Near Side 4 x 2? And can be used so that I have a new unrusty arm.

Anybody able to confirm?
Hi,
My new, yet redundant arm is stamped - C 560. H. 50705007. 02 and also has what looks like the Lancia Logo impressed next to it. On the labels, It is 0051799867 - 001 and 51799867. So either yours is correctly stamped 868 and mine is wrongly stamped 867, or conversely yours is wrong and mine is right. Your arm looks identical to both my old arm, now refitted with Powerflex and my new spare. I think if there are differences between the front wheel drive and the 4 x 4 it will be in the hub assembly given the 4 x 4 wheels are different from the front wheel drive. Also, there would be to much re-engineering involved with both wheel arches and/or chassis to be different: I think?. You have the pictures I sent you some time ago and from those should be able to discern what you may think the difference is; although when chasing down the new arm, the dealers confirmed there was two versions and someone on this site stated there was both hydraulic and solely rubber versions of the large main bush. The locating arm is bolted to the trailing arm, so you should be able to size the differences, if any. A good look at your original will confirm whether you are replacing like for like large bush item and you no doubt have measured the length of the trailing arm. If the bushes are different, then I can only recommend fitting the Powerflex- even as a temporary measure until another arm appears on e-bay and you can then re-install the O.E.M.'s to keep the integrity of the vehicle in tact, which I can fully understand you wanting to do. However, neither Powerflex or my garage, which is excellent, could get the old bushes out in tact, so you may risk your new bush if you try to remove it. However, I'm not going to teach granny to suck eggs given your history in this area.
Kind regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,640 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for your input Sizewell.
I know my 'new' arm is wrongly marked and perhaps it should be 51799867. I'm assuming if they had got the wrong side they might have got mixed up on 4 x 4 and 4 x 2. I have to do some better measurements of the two arms but was hoping for a critical metal change between the two types. By the way I can't find your photos. Were they in a PM?

You would think that the 4 x 2 and 4 x 4 would have some geometry differences because it makes no sense to run two different arms for parts supply. I can understand the hub assembly being different because of an extra drive shaft. The ePER is poor and it even shows the hub upside down with 2 fixings at the top when they are at the bottom in real life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,824 Posts
Thanks for your input Sizewell.
I know my 'new' arm is wrongly marked and perhaps it should be 51799867. I'm assuming if they had got the wrong side they might have got mixed up on 4 x 4 and 4 x 2. I have to do some better measurements of the two arms but was hoping for a critical metal change between the two types. By the way I can't find your photos. Were they in a PM?

You would think that the 4 x 2 and 4 x 4 would have some geometry differences because it makes no sense to run two different arms for parts supply. I can understand the hub assembly being different because of an extra drive shaft. The ePER is poor and it even shows the hub upside down with 2 fixings at the top when they are at the bottom in real life.
My Pictures were on "Are Poly bushes worth it". I am still smarting over the price I had to pay for that arm. However It did prompt me into contacting Powerflex who have done a great job. I shall probably get rid of the now redundant new arm, unless an off-side arm can be found on the cheap on e-bay. That being the case, I too will then hang on to them with the view to keeping the car original, which it deserves. Still getting used to the rear wheel traits of the Q4 and continue to get caught out some times with her on bends. I do however make the alternative mistake of hitting a bend just a little too fast and the car in those conditions can turn in very sharply; so much so that I have just badly scuffed, two newly refurbished nearside wheel. My fault. There is still a lot to learn about this cars handling and I just love the way she holds the line when either accelerating or braking. Just switching from the GT and GTV6, then back again, I seem to unlearn the lessons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,640 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Very interesting (now I've seen the pictures). I don't remember my 4 x 2 looking anything like this bush.
So perhaps the only difference between the 4 x 4 and 4 x 2 is the bush! If the poly bushes fit either then the assembled trailing arm has different part numbers because of the bush. I'll do some more checking.

Incidentally, the bushes are made by Paulstra. Their catalogue shows some of the features...
General Catalogue Industry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
I spotted a brand new Rear Trailing Arm on Ebay and thought I'd take a punt. As you can't buy the main rubber bush I could at least extract it from this one. It was described as a Drivers (Off Side) rear trailing arm. But I could see it wasn't. It was pictured upside down which might have confused the seller.

Having now got it I can see why it ended up as an Ebay item. The Part Number clearly attached in 2 places is 0051799868 which ePER states is an Off Side assembly for the 4 x 4 range. It's also stamped in the metal as 51855804 (but this may be a sub assembly stamp before welding)

If you look in the attached picture you will see it's a Near Side assembly. My Sportwagon is not a 4 x 4 but this unit looks identical. I can't see on the specs that the 4 x 4 has a different geometry so I'm guessing the 4 x 4 arm has to have some clearance issues.

So maybe this is really a Near Side 4 x 2? And can be used so that I have a new unrusty arm.

Anybody able to confirm?
I have 2 spare trailing arms for my FWD Brera ready for when the rust kills my originals. They look exactly the same as your photo. I'd give that a coat of proper chassis paint before fitting as the factory finish is rubbish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,640 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I have 2 spare trailing arms for my FWD Brera ready for when the rust kills my originals. They look exactly the same as your photo. I'd give that a coat of proper chassis paint before fitting as the factory finish is rubbish.
Do your arms have the rubbers in? And do they look like mine or these on Sizewell's car...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,824 Posts
Do your arms have the rubbers in? And do they look like mine or these on Sizewell's car...
Thanks for the catalog.
It would be good if the individual who initially said there are two versions could qualify where he got the info from. I think the hydraulic ones are for the 4 x 4 and the solids for the front wheel drive versions. I can understand why Alfa would do this given the torque is bi directional on the Q4 but believe they would work better on the front drive versions insofar as they would last longer and add a degree of comfort to the ride. If you could afford to buy and run a Q4 from new; probably as a company car, then the arms could probably be considered as service items to be changed. But in my case buying a 100,000 miler, the cost cannot be ignored. I think the hydraulics are not up to the job, long term and the Powerflex are better suited. But that I admit is a judgment made in comparison with what went before, i.e., failed hydraulic bushes. Non the less, the stability the Powerflex brings is extraordinary and I now understand what someone commented on about the VDC cutting in on hump back bridges. There is a particular one in my area which has a left hand approach and a right hand exit. If it hasn't happened for a while, it can give you a bit of a shock. But even though the wheels are out of alignment, there is no shift in stability, no load on the steering as the engine revs come off and the Brakes are applied.
I am still coming to terms with the fact that this is an Alfa. The V6 is endlessly flexible and despite the issues surrounding it, which continues to occupy my retirement, it is superb. My wife loves it so much it is like "Driving Miss Daisy" on slow country roads. But get the car on a free flowing motorway, then it is a different animal; better than a 3 or a 5 series in my opinion. It just does not cut it in sufficient areas with those two Beemer models to be said to be universally as good as. But if you want individuality, it gives you it in spades.
Kind regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,640 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I've just tried to undo the main bolt through this rubber using a 1 metre breaker bar. I couldn't shift it. It does feel as if the angle between the arm and the mounting plate is fixed. ie The rubber has some radial fixing. But I'm sure the Powerflex won't be this so it's probably an illusion created by the huge clamping force through the the fixing bolt.

Here are some pictures of my rubber...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,824 Posts
As for stampings the main arm also carries this impression...

C560 followed by 51855793.02
Yes, the fixing was a concern for me too. I believe it is factory set to ensure there is no torsional stress on the bush when the car is lowered back onto the road. so it is best not to upset it, or when you get the old one off, ensure the positions are maintained. The bolt is up into the bodywork when fitted to the car so their is no access to that bolt - yes I know you know that, but I had to say it just for completeness. This is not a consideration with the Powerflex as the central stainless sleeve is pinched by the bolt but the bushing is free to rotate around it. There are re-enforcing rings on the outer edges of the Powerflex to reduce chafing - the arm bush housing is a little rough. this is not an advert for Powerflex, just as it is. The torque setting for that bolt is in the e-learn disc. If that is your new arm bush, it looks very much like my original, with the re-enforced shoulder to buffer the bush during lateral movement. The Powerflex however, fills the housing to which the central bolt is fixed.
Kind Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,824 Posts
You almost convince me to do a 'Powerflex'
I'm not trying to, just telling as it is. If I could have got these arms on e-bay, I wouldn't have changed. It also looks like your new arm has got the bush the right way round, i.e. the re-enforced shoulder closest to the the sill. I will say however, with the size of the wheels on the 159 the supposed cushioning effect is, I think, overstated, particularly on the Q4 with the amount of work the bush has to do, regardless of impacting the leading edge of the tyre on some pot hole or obstacle. The only thing that strikes me about the Powerflex is the willingness of the company to listen to my concerns and to come up with what they did in such a short time is a tribute to them. I don't know if they will last as long but they are dead easy to change, even for me.
Kind regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,824 Posts
The bushes are still in so difficult to see. The ones in the photo look grey whereas mine are black.
Hi,
They are black, it is just the picture was taken in broad daylight with my phone. And time has aged the surface a little, plus the leaking fluid can't have helped. The sleeve of the bush is bright metal, I suppose galvanized or coted to inhibit electrolysis.
Kind Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,640 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Finally had a good look at the trailing arm on my car and found the number stamped in the metal.
It's 50705637.02. The new arm (as above) is stamped 51855793.02.

So, unfortunately, they are not the same.

Anybody with 4 x 4 can get a camera under the nearside just ahead of the rear wheel?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,020 Posts
I've just SORNed mine to do a few jobs. One of these is to fit new rear springs. For that I'm going to remove the trailing arms to de-rust and paint them.

I'll try and take note of any numbers I find :yes:

Other jobs are replace RH Front wheel bearing, fit HID headlamp bulbs, replace front brake pads, investigate spurious 'bonnet open' switch signals, deep clean and polish.

I'm retiring at the end of April, so I'm looking forward to doing these jobs without a deadline :biglaugh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,640 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
That would be very kind if you could look at your numbers. They are located on the underside about 1/3 of the way from the front.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,640 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I've now found the difference between my Trailing Arm and the new one I've purchased. As a reminder, the Alfa Part Number attached to the new arm says it is an Offside 4 x 4 part but it's clearly a Nearside part. I think I've worked out it's really a Nearside 4 x 4 part.

In the pictures below you can compare the two profiles (mine and the new) around the Shock Absorber lower fixing. This is also the channel that locates the hub assembly (front lower fixing)

On mine the U shaped channel is one pressing. On the new part its two L shaped pressings welded together. But the rear L shaped pressing is made of thicker steel. Probably about 50% thicker.

All the pickup points appear to be the same. There's no extra clearance for a drive shaft. Previously I'd checked the geometry settings and Alfa quote the same for 4 x 2 as 4 x 4. Powerflex say both types use the same trailing arm bush.

So I'm probably going to put this new unit on.

But why would Alfa run both designs? The 4 x 4 is reinforced but it makes no sense to run the 4 x 2 on a different design. There's more welding on the 4 x 4 but cost versus stocking complexity would be very marginal!
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top