Alfa Romeo Forum banner
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I kinda knew what H&T was but never understood why until I watched this a few times

Well explained and I finally get it.

I wondered if this technique was engineered into modern autos/flappies?

Mindful of the fact I've only ever driven manuels, oops, manuals I did some research on the obvious...
"Cars with automatic transmission do not have a clutch"
"there are several clutches in almost every automatic gearbox"
Both cited on the same page by different opinionists.

My Dad told me when I was a kid H&T was a way of "braking and using the clutch at the same time". So in my 20's with my first car I used my left foot to "brake and use the clutch at the same time" with an eager right foot. The clutch needed more travel than my little toe could manage. My direction of travel before was different to my direction of travel after, and I've never tried it since:embarrassed:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,199 Posts
A full automatic will, in theory, change down (and up) at optimum revs. As there's a fluid drive (torque converter) between the engine and gearbox rather than a clutch, any jolt is usually dampened out.

For flappy paddles, it depends if they are controlling an automatic box or a manual with lots of electronics and servos and whatnot. My (limited) experience of the latter is that the electronics sort it out for you.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
47,923 Posts
In sportier modes and manual, my car blips the throttle for you on downchanges. I really don't think it does so to match revs though, it's purely to make a nice noise.

In sport + the downchanges are quite brutal, it does them early to high revs in the lower gear and you can feel the additional braking effect thwoing you forward in your seat, so it's definitely not matching revs for a smooth transition then!
 

·
Registered
Saab 240DL Veloce
Joined
·
19,716 Posts
It’s been years since I did any heel & toe, which is a loss as it was one of the few things I was any good at. Like your cash point PIN, it’s one of the few things you can’t describe; you do it by pattern.

I’m pretty sure I did it with my right foot kinda diagonal across the brake and accelerator; top half of the foot (toes) for braking, bottom half (heel) for rev matching on down changing. I have a feeling that goes against the ‘expert’ view of how to do it, but it felt more comfortable to me and the result was the same.

The purpose is that you make braking and down changing smoother, so - theoretically - you’re not upsetting the balance of the car as much by doing these things in one smooth go. I guess that matters at speed, but there’s no reason why you can’t do it while pottering about, too. Some suggest that rev matching while down changing can improve clutch life. Not sure how much though, but I got 110,000 miles out of a hard driven Golf’s clutch. Which is more than I got out of its shock absorbers ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hobson284

·
Registered
Joined
·
40,083 Posts
In Manual mode my DCT gearbox BMW blips the throttle on downchanges.

It is entertaining, but just not as satifying as doing it yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm humbly honoured by the insights from you Platinum badged AO dudes.

The question came about after reading "death of the manual gearbox" or suchlike.

It made me ponder the things I've done, like selecting 2nd to go up an icy hill. 1st was just too spinny. 2nd didn't work either so I brilliantly did a reverse J turn (read accidentally, panicking, sliding backwards, handbrake turn with steering wheel on full inner lock so I didn't hit cars parked both sides of road...it kinda felt natural and cool when it worked) then reversed up icy hill with engine weight on back wheels. I was Torville and Dean in a 147:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,847 Posts
I do it constantly, to the point that I'll get in something that isn't my Spider, instinctively try to heel & toe and **** it up because pedals are too close/far apart/travels are different/it's a diesel etc. Having snappy throttle response in the Spider helps, and the relatively short throttle pedal travel (Ph1 cable throttle TS) means you don't have to twist your ankle too much to get the Rev match about right. I used to roll the right foot half across the brake and half the throttle to do it, bit having small feet this didn't work very well without getting your foot stuck between pedals! I now use Scudetto's method, and have done for years, and it's now just a normal part of driving. Makes it feel more like a sports car to me personally. Sorry for my egregious self-absorbed post on the matter!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,847 Posts
Also, it reduces clutch wear as you're not slipping the clutch plates as much to match the revs from engine to gearbox.
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top