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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I've been around on this forum on and off for many years. As some of you may know I repair Alfa car keys via ebay. My service is to repair the remote operation. i.e. the alarm and locking and occasionally I replace cases and the like.
What I don't get involved in the immobiliser functionality or anything to do with copying or cloning keys. This involves equipment I don't have and as it usually needs the car to be physically present its not something I'm interested in starting.

Unfortunately I have a customer with a 156 1999 V6 who has damaged their immobiliser transponder. They do have another working key and so are keen to get a copy made so they have two working keys.

Normally I would say that this isn't possible and the only options are:
a) New key from Alfa and reprogramming at £250-£300
b) Deletion of the transponder requirement from the ECU (Alfatuner)
c) A replacement ECU and 2 transponder set from a scrapyard
d) physically remove the working transponder and strap it to the ignition coil
None of these solutions is great.

However I have recently seen that some members say they have had copy keys made and as times move on maybe there are some new solutions for this type of key out there that I don't know about.

If you have had a copy made of your Type 2 Red key (Alfa 156 only) that will start your car then please can you let me know some more details, particularly where it was and how much it cost.
To keep the thread clean, please can people only respond if they have actually had a working copy made.

Many thanks :)
Chris
 

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Hi!
Sent my key to you a year ago, got it sorted out really nice, though the alarm still doesn't work for some reason, will send other key to you in a couple of weeks though. You've got a great service going on. thumbs up!

I'd say have a chat with Lasse "Redtop" on the swedish alfaforum called alfapower (AlfaPower - Powered by XMB 1.9.11)
He's been digging into the ECU of both 916/155 and 147/156 though mostly 916GTV and has gotten to some good conclusions regarding reading keys and how to repair and salvage keys/ECUs. I don't understand half of it but he's worth checking with. I think he has an account on alfaowner as well?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply, although the 916/155 ecus are easy enough as they are type 1, and the 147 type 3 is easy enough too as it is cloneable.
Its the type 2 156 key that is the problem.

Some members have openly said they have had their type 2 key 'cloned' so this is the chance for them to confirm it and say where (for the benefit of everyone).

Incidentally, I have been reminded that there is also the method to read the code direct from the immobiliser box. This is a valid way to make a clone providing you don't mind removing the box from the car and that you have the correct expertise and reading and writing software. It's a good option but I'm still interested to know from the people who claimed they have had a copy key made. That would be the ideal solution if true.
 

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If I'm not mistaken "redtop" has the posibility of reading the code of the key and duplicating a key.
 

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Hi Chris.

I've been thinking of removing the circuitry from one of my red keys and mounting it inside my 156...then using a separate remote controlled relay to close the lock/unlock switch circuit.

This relay would be triggered from a 4-button keyring transmitter that I already use to unlock the house.

I'd welcome your thoughts on this idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi Chris.

I've been thinking of removing the circuitry from one of my red keys and mounting it inside my 156...then using a separate remote controlled relay to close the lock/unlock switch circuit.
This relay would be triggered from a 4-button keyring transmitter that I already use to unlock the house.
I'd welcome your thoughts on this idea.
That's what a number of short-term car rental companies do so if its what you want to do it would work.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
After a number of background conservations via PM from a few people in the business (thanks to you all :) ) it confirms what I thought - there is no way to clone a type2 key immobiliser except by reading the code from the immobiliser box.

That's it, final answer.

You could still try one of the other four options but they are either expensive, difficult or could invalidate your insurance.
 

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this is for the red keys only.. i take it the early black two buttons keys are different and the transponder can be read and duplicated with simple software
 

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That's what a number of short-term car rental companies do so if its what you want to do it would work.
Thanks...project is underway now. Have figured out the wiring and now just waiting on the relay board from eBay.

Could you please also let me know what the black object inside the red key is? I have circled it in the attached image.
 

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Mito Veloce
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Thanks...project is underway now. Have figured out the wiring and now just waiting on the relay board from eBay.

Could you please also let me know what the black object inside the red key is? I have circled it in the attached image.
It's the transponder for the immobiliser system.
 

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Mito Veloce
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this is for the red keys only.. i take it the early black two buttons keys are different and the transponder can be read and duplicated with simple software
The early black keys use the same chip as the red ones and can't be copied either. It's the later black keys that can be copied. If you have a 2 on your key blade it can't be copied if you have a 3 then it can be copied. This applies to the numbering on the 156's only.
 

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It's the transponder for the immobiliser system.
Thanks. So I can either leave the transponder in each of the two red keys or extract one and conceal it beside the lock cylinder (then I can use any key cut to match)?

Can they just pull out with tweezers or are the glued in? Don't want to damage it.
 

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Mito Veloce
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Thanks. So I can either leave the transponder in each of the two red keys or extract one and conceal it beside the lock cylinder (then I can use any key cut to match)?

Can they just pull out with tweezers or are the glued in? Don't want to damage it.
Yes if you wanted you could remove the chip and attach it close to the antenna around the ignition barrel and the use any key that's cut for your lock. Obviously this will render your immobiliser ineffective.
The chip should be glued in. Put some acetone or cheap nail varnish remover (acetone based) on it to soften the glue. Then carefully tease it out. Take care though if you break or crack the chip it will no longer work.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks. So I can either leave the transponder in each of the two red keys or extract one and conceal it beside the lock cylinder (then I can use any key cut to match)?

Can they just pull out with tweezers or are the glued in? Don't want to damage it.
Do NOT use tweezers or pliers. Chances are you will break it if you nip it to hard and pull.
I've not tried what Cromwell suggests to loosend the glue but if you slip a thin blade down either long side to break the seal you can lever the chip out from the end nearest the blade. Levering it out means that if you are putting too much pressure on it the 'lever' will slip off rather than pull out a chunk.
Perhaps it takes practice but I can flip them out simply like this without and chip or case damage.
 
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