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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
I'm hoping to finally get into an Alfa at some stage in the not too distant future and was wondering if anyone could give me some advise? Having decided on either a petrol GT or a 159ti saloon, it looks like my engine choices are quite limited. I have looked at a couple of GT v6's but found them to be needing a fair amount of work in the not too distant future (that's at best - I have not included the far-from-road-legal/dangerous one!).
As far as the GT's go, and excluding the V6 for a moment, is the 2.0jts unit found in the Blackline and Cloverleaf models the same? Are these two models purely cosmetic marketing exercises? Although I havn't driven one, I have mentally discounted the 1.8ts in the Blackline as I think it'll be underpowered.

If anyone has experience with the above I would really appreciate your thoughts.
Many thanks
 

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Hi there

Well obviously i'm going to recommend the JTS , would love the V6 myself but mine had to do the work commute so couldn't justify that magnificent engine

Sye, you will get the JTS haters on here, was a bit wary myself after hearing some reports but mine has been fine, has to be better than living with the sound of the diesel unit, that to me would be like going out with a supermodel that smoked roll ups !

Test drive one, see how you feel, the JTS is rumoured to be better handling than the JTDM, my example absolutely flies around bends like its on rails,

One tip, if you do go down the JTS route, put some injector cleaner in the tank every once in a while, seems to do wonders for it.
 

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I have owned both a JTS and currently have A 1.9 JTDm .

I am not a JTS hater although there are some...! I just speak as I find and I didn't find good.

It just cost me a lot of money in the time I owned it. Bought with just 31k on the clock there is no way I should have had to replace the exhaust camshaft as well as the variator at that mileage. It also needed an ignition coil ,spark plugs and they do use a litre of oil overy 1000 miles. The exhaust flexi pipe was banjaxed as well and the radiator also had a leak...owned by an old lady and then an alfa mechanic ...verified as I bought off him and spoke to her. FSH and never really "spanked"

Economy poor and IMO don't sound nearly as good as the 2.0TS it replaced.

Meant to be 165 bhp ..most are not mine was ok to drive though..

Handling IS a tiny bit more refined than the derv in stock form but that is fixable for a couple of hundred quid with uprated ARB's

The derv is Better in every way but the sound. And remapped as it is will destroy a jts.

Mine is pushing 225 BHP with a hybrid and would give the v6 a good run for its money.

I love my GT and wish I had just got the derv straight off.

Would only replace it for a V6.

I too thought diesel and Alfa don't work which is why I initially bought the JTS

How wrong I was!
 

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Its brilliant this forum, it really is, its helped me no end (no sarcasm intended )

Sye, its best to weigh up all opinions then form your own. I did and haven't been disappointed, but sometimes its hard to know exactly what people want out of their car.
Test drive the GT and the 159 then decide, both great cars and stunning lookers.

Btw, mine uses about 1/2 a litre of oil every 4000 miles, not what i'd call excessive at all
Go for Fsh and accompanying paperwork and make sure its had the cambelt change.
Enjoy :thumbup:
 

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Joey, old ladies always look good in an and but they fall into a class of people that don't look under the engine bay between services, even worse than someone that's ragged it IMO.

As with anything read the buying guide on here and see what fits best for yourself. Cousin had a JTS 156 and he sold it for more than what he paid after 3 years ownership, not a single thing went wrong on it, it's all personal experience.

In answer to the cloverleaf/blackline yes the engine is the same just different trim levels.
 

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That's a very fair point...

You just have to be aware that the JTS does need a bit more care than most petrol cars.

I think in my case it was as much a mileage /engine mismatch as my work mileage was much higher than I expected when I bought the car.

10k a year or under and the JTS is ok.

When I owned mine petrol was £1.40 a litre on average and they perform MUCH better on premium fuel.

Injector cleaner a must IMO every 3 tanks or so but if your mileage is over 15k I would seriously consider the derv .

At current fuel prices it wont hurt much but if it goes up to the levels of two years ago real world economy of 28mpg average is going to hurt.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you to everyone for your thoughts and experiences. It's nice to have a cross section of opinion.
As has been mentioned, much of what makes a given engine suitable (or not) is driven by what it'll be asked to do.If I were a high mileage / commuter, then I guess a diesel could make sense. They seem to react well to mapping and hybrid turbos etc so obviously can appeal to the tuners too.
For me, the car will be a weekend vehicle and the engine is the absolute heart of any car. Part of this heartbeat has to be the sound and having driven diesel engined cars previously, it's something that cannot be 'tuned-out' cost effectively. I have also been down a road on previous cars when i have ended up trying to make something better than the sum of its parts and it always ends up with a question of ' great, I now have coilovers/exhaust/uprated brakes etc etc on a 'base' model - Why did I do that ??. Emotionally, I need a petrol Alfa and whilst I totally get what makes them an attractive proposition to their owners, they're just not for me.
I will try and get out in a 2.0 jts and maybe even a 1.8ts, but I think having been in a v6 it might be a waster of time. In fact, given the cars that need a lot of money spending on them out there (v6's have been in affordable territory for people less concerned about upkeep and more interested going as fast as possible for a while now), the whole exercise might need to be put on hold. It'll also make sense to try a 2.2 159ti and see if its a decent trade off in terms of being newer/more modern??
Anyhow, thanks again for everyone's input
 

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Your thoughts are indicative of the frankly poor engine choices in the GT.

Would have been great with a 2.0 TS or even one of the later 2.2 JTS engines found in the 159/brera.

If its a weekend car I daresay the V6 is the best choice hands down...!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It does see such a shame that a company with such a rich heritage 'forgot' the most important part!
You're right about the v6, but I have had a close shave or two when searching previously. It's all well and good seeing a 4/5/6k car, but four figures+ is easily spent on basic upkeep (and potentially soon after purchase ).If and when the right busso comes along, I'll try and go for it. In the meantime I might look at a 2.2 in the 159ti (but not entirely convinced I'll come away with the same impression of good, but not great ..
 

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Sye, just out of interest what was wrong with the V6s that you saw? Are they still for sale now?

As a rule of thumb you need about £1000 a year to run a V6, after tax petrol and insurance.
 

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Buy a busso. Really given your description of needs there is no choice. The gt with a busso has no depreciation left and is a classic. Buy now.
 

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I've had my GT V6 for three years and it's not cost too much to run so far. A cam belt change and tyres have been the major expenses. Apart from that it's been standard Alfa stuff like suspension bits and pieces.

The V6 is just a superb engine and if you don't do great mileage it's a no brainer, especially as it won't depreciate much at all. I paid £7250 for mine three years ago and would like to think it's worth £6500 now.... May even start to go up at some point.
 

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I've got both, and if you are out for a weekend toy there is only one option. There is no reason the v6 should cost more to keep up, and personally my jts has cost me fortunes in engine and gearbox related issues (sele). The jts is way more nimble, and no suspension work will move 100 lbs from the front and put it in the boot for the v6, but that one is all about the engine. Though suspension work make it a lot better, its a GT and not a 4c.

The jts will:

Eat its own camshafts
Clog up the injectors
Need a lot of oilchanges, as it contaminate the oil badly
Use a lot of oil

All GT's will need:

New belt, waterpump at 36k three years (and once a while a new variator)
New front suspension every 36k-50k

The 1.8 is a great engine, very reliable but not to much action in the go pedal.

And the 159 is a different breed, not comparable to the GT. A family saloon with a tendency to stretch its chain (2.2) Though better built than previous generations of alfas, they are also prone to rust and bits and bobs in the suspension department.
 

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I've recently changed from a 147 JTD to a remapped GT JTD and it is a lovely motor in every way as described in countless comments on these pages. However, I am now considering a 1.8 Twin Spark, not for me but my wife. The reason being she loves my GT and I reckon she would love one too but she doesn't have a heavy right foot like many of us here, so the power characteristics of a lovely Twinny would suit her. Also, I reckon a few tweaks here and there would perk up the 1.8 just to give it a little more edge.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Interesting to hear everyones views and experiences - cheers
I guess the thing we can all agree on is the engine choice will be largely driven by what the car will be used for.
There's no doubt that my model of choice is the v6, and it is interesting to hear that eivindcl has spent more in upkeep on his 2.0.
@Firstcaralfa : The three or four that I viewed were nothing more than the sort of things you get when looking at any used car. Poor descriptions (eg, a 'mint 30k miles 1 owner' had no history and ripples all along the rear quarter) ; another had odd Kenda/Linglong or whatever tyres and again, little in the way of provenance. Whilst disappointing and frustrating, it wasn't a real surprise as it goes with buying second hand. The one that really put the doubts in my mind however was a Stromboli/Red car that was advertised as 'factory'. Double checked with the owner as I had my doubts, but it was confirmed it was 'out of the box'. As soon as I saw it, it was obvious it was lowered and had a Scorpion backbox. Further investigation saw paint had been seen on nearly every panel and the overall condition was OK at best. The noise it made however was disconcerting. Imagine a silencer-free exhaust system coupled to a very lumpy tickover (close to stalling) and you're getting there. Anyway, I had made the trip and had already arranged to have the car inspected prior to any purchase. Suffice to say that after two pages of a4 provided by the garage describing faults and the advise to the owner that the car should not be driven home from a safety angle (brake lines if I recall), I walked away confident a decent v6 wasn't going to happen.
This was all a while ago and none of the cars are currently for sale to my knowledge
 

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My advice is to just keep looking Sye, the right one will come along soon , you just need to sort the wheat from the chaff.

I parked up a couple of years ago at an Alfa show and next to me was a gorgeous V6, 26000 miles and as genuine and original as you can get.

Keep looking, try to gauge the owner, a genuine owner will be knowledgeable, full of enthusiasm and have nothing to hide, they are out there !
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Cheers. Hope that you're right !
I suppose you try to buy a car from someone who looks after them as you would yourself, Good to hear you think they're out there
 

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Yes, they are out there you just need to wait to find a cared for example. I was lucky as mine was the second I looked at, but the first was really rough. There are not many around but it's worth the wait for a good one.....
 
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