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Discussion Starter #1
2 weeks ago while overtaking on the highway smoke came out of the exaust and started to make a very loud "siren" noise and lost all the power , hardly reaching 2500 rpm.
indeed it felt like the turbo went...
The turbo was noisy before, but the power was there, and at the time I decided to wait for it fail before I take to repair, and of course as you can see, it did

I took it a reputable and experienced, indy alfa mechanic.
It quoted me more than what I expected but I decided it might be worth it, I thought
... I'll pay more but at least it will be down once and quick."

I was wrong...

2 weeks down the line after the turbo it's been recon with "upgraded" parts, (10 days for that)
and after other 3 visits
the car is still (in what it seems to me ) in limp mode
Mechanic keeps talking to me about the poor diesel quality in SA,
that i can only agree but it is sounding like an excuse all the mechanics use to say
"I have no clue why is not working fine"
he is also filling the car with chemicals
It seems he believes it will get fix by it self , as he mentioned a running in period (1000 km)

The symptoms are to me are very much of one of this problems
Turbo
air leeks
egr valve
maf

in that order
He started mentioning egr valve but now went to the injectors side of the story
(I don't think so , I'm no mechanic but why was working fine just before the incident, with aduff turbo)

What I can't believe is ... did they drive the car?
How can they give back a car running like this?
after expending the money I spent, do mechanics expect us to give up?
Why do I need to hear from mechanics ..."ahhh if you had taken it to ALFA the bill would have been SOOO MUCH"
why do they think we are taking the car to them?
Because we want to pay a reasonable price for well done job
we don't want to be rip off
We need honesty
and while most of us will understand a reasonable explanation of why didn't go well and what t needs to be done next, we want people to take ownership of the problem , we need them on our side.

BTW: this is not and alfa problem , got a friend its been passing through the same story the difference are 3 or 4 different mechanics and he is driving a Mitsubishi double cab and guess what its turbo diesel too.

If its not because I'd spent substantial amount of money and I'm still thinking something might have gone wrong with the turbo-upgraded-recon I'll take it some where else, for good...
in any case I'm thinking, having a second opinion it might be wise
but i have no clue where to take it, I'm afraid I'll be caught on the vicious circle, and both mechancs(if only two) will blame each other for what they can't or don't want to fix...


Guys..any advise its welcomed.
:cry:
 

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If its not because I'd spent substantial amount of money and I'm still thinking something might have gone wrong with the turbo-upgraded-recon I'll take it some where else, for good...
in any case I'm thinking, having a second opinion it might be wise
but i have no clue where to take it, I'm afraid I'll be caught on the vicious circle, and both mechancs(if only two) will blame each other for what they can't or don't want to fix...

Guys..any advise its welcomed.
:cry:
A turbo is a rather specialized part, even if it looks simple. There are very few guys who can repair them, and even specialists will order complete bearing units from the factory. Most turbos have a floating bearing setup. That means there are a stationary bush in the casing then a floating bush, that turns at half the turbo speed and then you have the turbo shaft on the inside that turn at full speed. The inner bush float in low pressure oil and clearances are critical as there are an amount of movement taken up by oil. (At high speed the oil forms an 'oil wedge' and keep the shaft firm) modern turbos turn at up to 300 000 rpm.

What goes wrong with them?
To little oil supply for whatever reason.
The drain from the turbo is to small, blocked or kinked. That stops the oil supply.
If the oil don't drain away, the oil in the turbo burn to carbon and don't work at all.
Once the bearing (bush) have to much clearance, the seals fail.
From the turbine side the exhaust pressure can blow the oil out of the bearing unit or leak into the exhaust when you close the throttle, to smoke from the exhaust.
From the compressor side the oil can be sucked in and get burned in the engine with some smoke from the exhaust.
Due the the speed of the turbo, it must be balanced perfectly.
With the exhaust gas going through the turbo at 800/1000C you need a good synthetic oil to handle the heat.
At high altitude, very small turbos speed up quickly sometime before the oil stabilized, and the impellers destroy itself by catching in the snail. It is commonly called over-speeding, but is normally not an Alfa problem because our turbos are a little larger.

I know the theory is not going to help you, But you need to select mechanics and dyno tuners carefully when you come with your turbo car.
 

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After I got mine back it also felt like it was in limp mode.

Had the DPF cut out because it was full of **** and actually acting against the turbo, it was slighty better but still not 100%. Then had the EGR cleaned out and it mad a huuuuge difference. Also check boost pipes for small cracks.

Did they do a compression test on all cyclinders??

If Tony had opened up the bottom half of the motor it probably would have saved me a few months of being effed around and carless

When mine went it actually bent a flippen rod! Car wasnt revving nicely do due busted phonic wheel that actually took a knock from something.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Guys ...
I know the theory is not going to help you, But you need to select mechanics and dyno tuners carefully when you come with your turbo car.
Like who?

Had the DPF cut out because it was full of **** and actually acting against the turbo, it was slighty better but still not 100%.
IDK if they've checked that, something to follow up I guess...
Then had the EGR cleaned out and it mad a huuuuge difference.
I've been told they've done that
Also check boost pipes for small cracks.
my silly visual inspection didn't find anything except the main plastic intake before the air filter, it was little loose but ... no difference
Did they do a compression test on all cyclinders??
I hope it doesn't need that ... when the turbo gave up it didn't "explode"
I was a black puff and loud winning noise ...like siren but it was pushing exactly the same as when I had a cut in the lower turbo pipe ...that BTW Chatz tried to fix with Duct Tape :eek: (needless to said was the last time I give them something to repair)

When mine went it actually bent a flippen rod! Car wasnt revving nicely do due busted phonic wheel that actually took a knock from something.
Well, I can only pray then...


Filled up the tank and dropped some injector cleaner, 1% improvement
But it still not good, very far to it's normal power
I use to make 80km/h uphill in no time, now takes a couple of weeks to get 60km
It feels lazy...
If kept at about 2000/2200 the power is almost there (Not really there)
Anyway
is back at the garage and i'm lighting up the candles and waiting to for the planets to go aligned
Its very sad, such a great car, I'm considering let her go...
Turbo Diesels might be something to scratch from the list and it seems to be more on the black magic ground than to technology our mechanics can handle reliably, and around reasonable costs of course

BTW maybe GT stands for Great Trouble.
 

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Is the turbo boosting though? Cos mine felt like it wasnt boosting at all, had the EGR cleaned and DPF out and felt miles better.
 
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Hi,

I have had more turbo diesel problems than most people. And it was a VW Polo...

My turbo blew on the highway, great pile of smoke and the end of turbo 1.

VW fixed it (was out of warranty so paid out of my @rse). 15 000kms later the turbo blew again.

So took it to Steve's auto clinic. 38kms after leaving Steves Auto Clinic the boost pipe came lose and I was left stranded on the highway ... Phoned them and had it replaced free of charge with a brand new one.

Needless to say I wont drive a turbo diesel anytime soon..
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Is the turbo boosting though? Cos mine felt like it wasnt boosting at all, had the EGR cleaned and DPF out and felt miles better.
It deosn't feel like its doing anything.. :rolleyes:
Perreby: I'm getting so many Horror stories with about turbo diesels that I'm convinced its not an ALFA only thing.

What it worries me the most is not going broke(well I do anyway), its the uncertainty...!
With the old 156 I knew it could go wrong (it didn't) but , I knew it was going to be just money and a couple of days without car...

Now I IDK if I'll find the gremlin before replacing or fixing or cleaning every possible turbo system component.
and when finally finding it something else surely went wrong (suspension, electronics,engine,blah,blah,blah )
and in the meantime I have no car anyways.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Down from the garage, there is some improvement
it seems they checked everything, air leaks, turbo boost, egr valve but ...
Still no power from the bottom, it looks like is going to come back from 2nd gear 2000/2200 rpm and gets lost as you go closer to 3500 no point to continue its just noise no power.
if pushed some black smoke is coming out

got to the highway and, I thought maybe I can drive it like this as suggested until the fuel system sanitize it self with the heavy load of chemicals on the fuel.
was going well managed, to do the legal 120 without killing it, i stay on fast lane, go an $#%$#^ pushing me on the back.
suddenly I start to loose power from 120 in 6th (should be normally easy to stay there with no effort) and starts going down
panic! the car behind me (a badly looking old corolla) is getting too close ..I push it.. boom! MCSF nomore power loss , power was gone before...
car is now on limp mode
Pull down on the left, turn off ,turn on , error still there ..
go little forward .. it feels better ...not normal pre-turbo-issue but better, better than before the MCSF

as a note Fuel consumption didn't vary a lot, or at least didn't JUMP up tho....

Starts to feel about right the fuel theory (fuel pump, injectors, etc..)
monday back to the garage

The error code still there even if limp mode is gone (or I think so)
Its because the error is recorded its been checked/picked up at engine start?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I use to have elm327 usb interface, not sure where is it :confused:
i could see if something else is coming up.
maybe I'll should get another one, it'll be nice to have the Bluetooth one to read it real time with the phone or a tablet (i'm drifting here...)
 

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I use to have elm327 usb interface, not sure where is it :confused:
i could see if something else is coming up.
maybe I'll should get another one, it'll be nice to have the Bluetooth one to read it real time with the phone or a tablet (i'm drifting here...)
You need the proper Alfa ecu scan to read errors, has that been done yet? Surely it will point to the problem areas. Good luck, hope it gets fixed properly soon.
 
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