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A friend has bought a Golf for his wife and he finds ,as I do from looking around the traffic, the tail lamp wiring is not quite right. An appetite for bulbs.
 

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While driving at night, my wife and I used to play a game called "Spot the VW"... just look out for cars with a blown left rear running light... invariably they'd be Golfs or Passat or their Seat equivalents. It seems that the boys and girls in Mlada Boleslav knew a bad loom design when they saw one, because very few if any Skodas featured in the scoring.
 

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In crackington haven there are the remains of a WW2 German S boat. These boats were 100 ft long, with 3 V20 2000 hp engines - a bit like a jetski with torpedoes.
in 1945 the S89 was wrecked on the beach, all thats left now is the prop shafts and the 3 V20 engines. after 60 years in the sea the engines as still complete and the locals remove parts when the tide is low, favourites are the valve followers which even after all this time still have oil inside and operate perfectly.

That's German engineering.

Vw and audi engineering is to a price that sells
 

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In crackington haven there are the remains of a WW2 German S boat. These boats were 100 ft long, with 3 V20 2000 hp engines - a bit like a jetski with torpedoes.
in 1945 the S89 was wrecked on the beach, all thats left now is the prop shafts and the 3 V20 engines. after 60 years in the sea the engines as still complete and the locals remove parts when the tide is low, favourites are the valve followers which even after all this time still have oil inside and operate perfectly.

That's German engineering.

Vw and audi engineering is to a price that sells
And the execution of the design gives the impression of ordered design/engineering .
 

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Discussion Starter #46
After being able to inspect the quality of interior trim and plastics on both BMW and Audi cars owned by friends and relatives and then comparing it to the trim in the 159, Brera and Spider I came to the conclusion that the one thing these manufactures are really good at is marketing, spending €thousands telling people how good their cars are and of course the point of marketing, tell someone often enough they will eventually start to believe you.

Based on my experience of failing German components, I dont believe that Alfa Romeo is any worse than any car made in Germany, its just the general public have been brainwashed into thinking that they are.
 

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The interior of the 159 /,Brera is not exactly honed even if the materials are ok. The door release and the relationship of the door to the end of the dash really couldn't have taken long compared to an Audi . It's a shame but it's true .
 

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I was quite impressed by the build quality of the interior on the 159.

Not quite as good as on my E39 Beemer, but not far off and much better looking.

I would be more concered with the body build quality and the rust protection, as I think Alfa have fallen behind on this in recent years. Just look at how many 156's suffered rusty floorpans at less than 10 years old.
 

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as I think Alfa have fallen behind on this in recent years. Just look at how many 156's suffered rusty floorpans at less than 10 years old.
Like a lot of 156 problems, it's poor maintenance - particularly not washing salted grit off the cars during winter. This affects a lot of cars, not just Alfa, and the incidence in 156s isn't worse than other brands of the period.

If you're looking for a brand that fell behind in rustproofing, you should look towards Mercedes. There are serious rust problems with many of their models from the decade between 1995 and 2005.
 
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I've been an alfa owner for the best part of 9 years now, I do not know of any other fwd car that provides such an informative and thrilling chassis to drive, Ive had the hot hatches from Ford and Peugeot,I haven't driven a single BMW car in my life, but pound for pound I haven't had a better feeling than what an Alfa gives. I know if money was no object there are other cars that might change my mind but they cost so much more! You spends your money and takes your choice!!
 

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Like a lot of 156 problems, it's poor maintenance - particularly not washing salted grit off the cars during winter. This affects a lot of cars, not just Alfa, and the incidence in 156s isn't worse than other brands of the period.

If you're looking for a brand that fell behind in rustproofing, you should look towards Mercedes. There are serious rust problems with many of their models from the decade between 1995 and 2005.
I don't agree.

It is poor rust proofing and design from Alfa.

On the floor of a 156 there are small cutouts which allow moisture into the foam under the carpet, and this causes the rear footwells to rust from both the outside and the inside. The underseal application is also poor, and very thin in places and moisture spreads between it and the metal. In fact some 156's and 159's have been found with large areas of the floor with no underseal at all. The 159 is also beginning to suffer rusty subframes and suspension components due to insufficient rust protection.

Compare this to the two 164's I owned, one in 1998 when it was 10 years old and the second in 2004 when it was 15 years old. Neither of those had any rust in the floorpan, although the older one did have some surface rust on the rear subframe.

You don't see many Audi's, VW's or BMW's with rust in the floor, and you can't tell me that the owners of them are any more likely to wash the salt and grit off. In fact they are probably less likely to have been pampered due to the numbers of them not being owned by enthusiasts.

After spending a couple of weekends welding up the floor, inner sills and inner front wings on my 2001 (8 years old at the time) 156 I was really put off the model.

I agree about Mercedes rust though, they really did let their standards slip. I cannot remember when I last saw a late 1990's CLK or E class without any rust in it. My dad has a 2007 CLS, I can't see any rust in the floor or anything, but there was a rust bubble on the bootlid when he bought it which has now been fixed.
 
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