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I reported it to.

On my VW the Body build quality, including the rust protection, door shuts etc is excellent.

The rest including the electrics and interior are no better put together than on an Alfa/Fiat of a similar age.
 

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"There maybe a very good and justified reason as to why so many car manufacturers use Bosch or Siemens etc.

Just a thought......... (spoken like a true German car owner) :lol:[/QUOTE]

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Patent rights for common rail Diesel engines I suspect (Bosch)? Lol.

I used to think Bosch bits were reliable but that was a long time ago.
 
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Many Many Many moons ago Bosch were (from what I can gather) the muts nuts.

An uncle used to own an electrical wholesaler in Cardiff during the 70s, 80s & 90s (Wyvern Electrical), he used to swear by their products.

Not sure if their automotive division have separate manufacturing standards.
 

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I think Bosch has gone wider-market and is now producing parts to a price point, same as any other manufacturer. I don't think their stuff is too bad really.. :)

But agreed.. whatever component is in there, the Germans do have the assembly and construction nailed down more firmly. On the other hand.. check the price difference, even with VW currently priced to "dump". If FGA spent an extra grand on each car, they'd be pretty robust to touch/feel too.. :)


Ralf S.
 
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There is bound to be some sort of tiered selection on ECU modules, harnesses, materials used etc and all run as the following.

TOP - Sublime and robust plastics, metals, leathers etc

MIDDLE - Not bad and will suit most manufacturers for mid range / cheap high spec models

BOTTOM - Fairly crud, no thrills, does the job but fairly ugly.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
There is bound to be some sort of tiered selection on ECU modules, harnesses, materials used etc and all run as the following.

TOP - Sublime and robust plastics, metals, leathers etc

MIDDLE - Not bad and will suit most manufacturers for mid range / cheap high spec models

BOTTOM - Fairly crud, no thrills, does the job but fairly ugly.
So you think a manufacture would risk their reputation with that as a business model?

And you need to read the post by Cream.
 
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It was an example.................... Not a direct interpretation!!!!!!!!

You can read into that basic analogy as far as you want but it was purely an Example!!!

Yes I read his latter post.......... Surely parts and controls vary in some way or another???
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Wooow! Ok BP! Its just that I cannot see a manufacturer making a lesser product for one car co than another, say good quality for VAG say and rubbish for lets say FGA.

The point of my OP is that the bits that have let me down or needed premature replacement on my Alfa Romeos have been in the main from several different German manufacturers, coincidence?
 

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A supplier will be given the corporate standards by the customer and any contracts for warranty fines if their parts are "to blame" . Many suppliers comprise of companies they have acquired who may already make parts to VW or Fiat for example .
 

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The manufacturer of the cars will go to someone like Bosch and ask them to make the electrical items down to a certain price.

The parts will be better if the manufacturer is prepared to pay more.
 

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That is true about the purchasing department.

An example of things being made to a price was the Clarion CD players in the GTV.

Utter rubbish, despite the fact that Clarion usually make good stuff.

I would imagine the same goes on with the other parts to a degree.
 

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I have often wondered whether the pressure a car manufacturer puts on its suppliers (like Bosch) has a bearing on the reliability of other car marques. How interchangeable are Bosch-made parts from one car brand to another?

Point I'm getting to is this; Mercedes banged out goodness knows how many models in the 1990s/2000 in a very short period of time. Did that put Bosch under huge pressure to rapidly develop products - products that would possibly later be shared with other car manufacturers - without enough time to go through the same durability testing/integrity as before?

Mere speculation of course, but if so, the next time your Alfa breaks down, you can blame Mercedes :)
 

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Bosch make parts to run engines, they are interchangeable across many cars of all makes unless they need to be different shapes to fit in specific areas - then the electronics is modelled into a different housing, its still the same electronics - just look at the Bosch online catalog

alfa romeo dont make clutches, they use the same clutches that everyone else uses, and that fail on VW's, BMW and Fords etc

the Japanese however dont use Bosch - they make thier own versions (copies) and perhaps this is where they score with increased reliability
 
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Wooow! Ok BP! Its just that I cannot see a manufacturer making a lesser product for one car co than another, say good quality for VAG say and rubbish for lets say FGA.

The point of my OP is that the bits that have let me down or needed premature replacement on my Alfa Romeos have been in the main from several different German manufacturers, coincidence?
Ahhh I see where your coming from. When in the past I have taken the seats apart or removed a part of the dash board, they are usually made or moulded by another supplier. So lets say your £27k BMW 3 series would nominate a specific supplier for their materials etc on the basis of price and quality... However if you were to look at say Dacia then I would imagine they would seek a materials supplier that would supply both durable yet not very costly items in order to sell a vehicle aimed at a different market, however there is bound to be a middle point.

I could indeed be very very very wrong but it is certainly possible.

If you were to compare a 7 series against a 1 series, I have no doubts that separate materials suppliers would have been sourced.... Again I could be wrong.

Bosch make parts to run engines, they are interchangeable across many cars of all makes unless they need to be different shapes to fit in specific areas - then the electronics is modelled into a different housing, its still the same electronics - just look at the Bosch online catalog

alfa romeo dont make clutches, they use the same clutches that everyone else uses, and that fail on VW's, BMW and Fords etc

the Japanese however dont use Bosch - they make thier own versions (copies) and perhaps this is where they score with increased reliability
Ahh interesting point, what if we were to compare mass produced bosch items against reliability? would the score be unacceptable or deemed as fair???

I.E. 250000 ECU units produced per year - 10000 units fail per annum ??

Maybe I am too uneducated to the whole sector.
 

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generally Bosch sensors, ecus, and electronics are extremely reliable

5 years ago i left an alfa 155 16v in the car park at work, it was worth nothing but i couldn't scrap it because i had driven it for 140k miles... after 3 years someone took an interest in it and we fitted a charged battery to it. I turned the ignition key hoping to pump some fluids around the engine, however the car started after 2 seconds and settled to an 800 rpm idle, stunning me and my mate. When you consider all the electronics that hadn't been on for 3 years that's pretty amazing.

If you look at a bosch air flow meter for a 2.0l car, it will fit around 30 models of all types and makes of car, both diesel and petrol, there all the same and the failure rate will be very small with a lifetime of perhaps 120k miles +

all these cars are built from very similar parts bins
 

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When I called the Rac because my 147 Egr had immobilised it the guy came and said it was the same part he'd just sorted out on a Nissan .
 

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Ralf, compare a new Alfa to a new VW and you'll see the only difference is now only in the interior trim... Alfa's current manufacturing quality is excellent, and as time goes by, FIAT are slowly collecting the manufacturing awards to prove it.

The difference is in where the money is spent... the Giulietta has extensive use of lightweight Aluminium in its suspension arms - costs more, can't be seen, but provides superior road behaviour. Audi on the other hand are more pragmatic, or is that cynical: the 'lightweight metal' part is the bonnet pressing, and the money saved is used for more soft plastics inside the cabin..

Agree that another 1k per car would lift Alfa's 'in-showroom' quality up to where, say, Volvo is, after that, the cars' superior dynamics would do the rest.
 

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The soft plastics are partly used to allow for better fit and finish Kris . A slush moulded instrument panel allows the vent bezels to fit flush with minimal gaps for example . Its not just for the haptics .
The quantities produced allow for the MBQ VW and Audi models to have different wheelbases and even two grades of rear suspension according to requirements. The expensive stuff on the Giulietta is from top to bottom of the range, which is good for the customer.
 

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Generally the 156 has been fine up until recently. The only foible has been its fetish for munching light bulbs, which's more of an irritation than a problem. Only now, nearly 7 years on, is it starting to show its age. It's garage-bound on Monday to have the clanky tappets looked at...

Joys of motoring...
 
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