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Confirmed that it will be shown in "normal" guise in Geneva.

Also mentioned is the engine options.. looks good, 2.0 330BHP petrol :thumbup:

TURIN -- Alfa Romeo will unveil the long-delayed mainstream versions of its Giulia midsize sedan at the Geneva auto show next week.

The debut follows presentation of the high-performance, top-of-the-line Giulia Quadrifoglio in Frankfurt last September.

The Giulia, a rival to the Audi A4 and BMW 3 series, will be shown with an entry-level 2.0-liter gasoline engine and a 2.2-liter diesel that is unlikely to be sold in the U.S. The Giulia Quadrifoglio has a Ferrari-derived 505-hp twin-turbocharged V-6.

U.S. sales of the Quadrifoglio will begin in the third quarter, with the 2.0-liter version arriving in U.S. showrooms by year end, Alfa has said. Originally, the Quadrifoglio was expected in the U.S. in the first quarter and the rest of the range by midyear.

The new 2.0-liter engine, a direct-injection, turbocharged four-cylinder, will be available in 180-hp, 250-hp and 330-hp versions. The engine also has FCA's MultiAir variable valve system.

The Giulia will also use a higher-output variant of a revised 2.2-liter diesel introduced last year on the Jeep Cherokee. The engine has a top output of 210 hp but also will be offered in more fuel-efficient 135-hp and 180-hp variants.

The Giulia, previewed at the Alfa Romeo museum in June 2015, has had a bumpy development. This month, FCA lured former Ferrari chief engineer Roberto Fedeli back from BMW Group to help fix mounting technical challenges at Alfa and Maserati.





The launch of the Giulia is months behind schedule. Supplier sources have told Automotive News Europe the Giulia failed to pass internal front, side and rear crash tests, which resulted in extensive re-engineering that has added about six months to the sedan's development time.

"We are not commenting in any way," said an FCA spokesman when asked about a delay.

The Quadrifoglio version was due to launch in Europe by the end of last year with the base Giulia scheduled for a European debut in March, European dealers were told last June.

The Quadrifoglio and the diesel are now set to go into production on March 31, with deliveries to Italian dealers to begin by late May or early July. The Giulia with the 2.0-liter gasoline engine is due in Europe by the end of the year.
 

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Thats really great news.

The 2.0 330hp engine sounds the way AMG went with the A45. While I am a little sceptical about how strained these engines are, however it's a good step forward that Alfa/Maserati/Ferrari can get this much power out of such a unit.
 

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Well the diesels are no where near competitive, needs around 110HP more and a derivative to match something like the 330D that sells by the bucket load (254 HP, with BMW's perfomance pack it's closer to 300 HP). That's no better than the 159 2.4JTDM, sure might be more fuel efficient but not a load or progess in a decade there. What happend to the 340HP diesel? It'd be a ridiculously hard sell to get a BMW driver in one of those..

As for the petrol, well the 330HP / 250HP derivative is more like it. Still we'll have to see if it's worth it, I hope they didn't just stick in one big ol' turbo with tons of lag. Twin turbo or twin scroll would be pretty sweet, but again you can get the 340I with a BMW performance pack that does 360HP plus has the deeper grumble of a 3.0L I6.. In late 2017 the 340I will come with 360 HP as standard..

Yes, I understand in reality a game of top trumps doesn't mean much. But 210HP in a modern diesel aimed as a 3 series competitor? That's just poor.. Whilst the petrols may be of some interest, it'd either have to be much cheaper than the equivalent BMW or come with a lot more kit as standard.

Lets see what the deals are..
 

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To be fair, Lexus don't meet many of those arbitrary BMW standards either. They still sell reasonably well.

Perhaps Alfa have had some forethought and have foreseen the rebalancing of DERV/Petrol cars more towards petrol again. :)

This car has come from a combination of Ferrari, Maserati and Alfa Romeo. I don't much think DERV was high up their list of 'care'. :lol:

I know its quite a common car, but I still bet the 330/335d is on the tail end of business sales. The 320d and such are more likely to be company car targets, and much more affordable. No good having a super powerful DERV that only some tail end of the market wants. A 2.2 diesel with 210hp is perfectly reasonable to have in a top DERV model I think. Theres also not much point in a V6 diesel right now in terms of the family line up, just go and buy a Ghibli if you want a 6 pot DERV that much. :confused:
 

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Well the diesels are no where near competitive... But 210HP in a modern diesel aimed as a 3 series competitor? That's just poor.. Whilst the petrols may be of some interest, it'd either have to be much cheaper than the equivalent BMW or come with a lot more kit as standard.

Lets see what the deals are..
Before I bought my Ghibli I looked into fast diesels. Mercedes C class and Audi A4 do not do a large capacity diesel. The 330d is the only one left. It sells a in the hundreds per year.

The 2.1TDs in the Merc and Audi have similar BHP to 210 so its right in there.

Whether they will shoehorn the FCA 3.0 V6 diesel in the Giulia remains to be seen
 

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Before I bought my Ghibli I looked into fast diesels. Mercedes C class and Audi A4 do not do a large capacity diesel. The 330d is the only one left. It sells a in the hundreds per year.

The 2.1TDs in the Merc and Audi have similar BHP to 210 so its right in there.

Whether they will shoehorn the FCA 3.0 V6 diesel in the Giulia remains to be seen
Even the A4 V6 only goes up to ~270hp, and the next step down is 218.

I must say, the power unit from the 335d is a remarkable piece of technology, but I'm not convinced it will ever be a mainstay.

Even the 2.0TDI in the A4 only goes to 190, so the Giulia engines are perfectly in line with the Teutonic cars, with the 335d being somewhat odd for a saloon car.

It's far more fashionable to make your cars lighter now for more bhp/tonne, which is exactly what they are going for with the Giulia.
 

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To be fair, Lexus don't meet many of those arbitrary BMW standards either. They still sell reasonably well.

Perhaps Alfa have had some forethought and have foreseen the rebalancing of DERV/Petrol cars more towards petrol again. :)

This car has come from a combination of Ferrari, Maserati and Alfa Romeo. I don't much think DERV was high up their list of 'care'. :lol:

I know its quite a common car, but I still bet the 330/335d is on the tail end of business sales. The 320d and such are more likely to be company car targets, and much more affordable. No good having a super powerful DERV that only some tail end of the market wants. A 2.2 diesel with 210hp is perfectly reasonable to have in a top DERV model I think. Theres also not much point in a V6 diesel right now in terms of the family line up, just go and buy a Ghibli if you want a 6 pot DERV that much. :confused:
Still the derv's are big sellers, just because you say it's "reasonable", it doesn't mean it will convince BMW drivers to switch. Especially as it's not much over the boggo standard 320D with 190HP which you can have for £200.00 a month. It'll also come down to fuel efficiency, which BMW "claims" 67MPG so expect around the 55 / 50 mark in real life.

Also doesn't matter if it's "tail end" sales are sales.

Again with the petrol lineup, which seems perfectly reasonable with the 330HP variant being the pick of the bunch for me.. But convincing BMW / Audi drivers to switch with what they released? It'll be a tough sell, for a start people who are clueless about cars (which are the majority) go for the badge and if Alfa had the rep they would of sold well anyway, people who know what a HP is are going to get the most bang for their buck.

Finally, why would I want a Ghibli? I have a perfectly fine 335D right here ;)..
 

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Still the derv's are big sellers, just because you say it's "reasonable", it doesn't mean it will convince BMW drivers to switch. Especially as it's not much over the boggo standard 320D with 190HP which you can have for £200.00 a month. It'll also come down to fuel efficiency, which BMW "claims" 67MPG so expect around the 55 / 50 mark in real life.

Also doesn't matter if it's "tail end" sales are sales.

Again with the petrol lineup, which seems perfectly reasonable with the 330HP variant being the pick of the bunch for me.. But convincing BMW / Audi drivers to switch with what they released? It'll be a tough sell, for a start people who are clueless about cars (which are the majority) go for the badge and if Alfa had the rep they would of sold well anyway, people who know what a HP is are going to get the most bang for their buck.

Finally, why would I want a Ghibli? I have a perfectly fine 335D right here ;)..
Well, I'll assume that corporate strategists of FCA are better at business than I am for the moment and take their word for the engine offers. ;)

According the Sytner, the cheapest 3er is ~£329, which is well above the £200 you state. Lets assume that you can knock some off for whatever reason, where is this £200 figure coming from? :confused:
This is also with a customer deposit of £5000.

Even the 116d starts at £299 on a low deposit. :confused:

Is this for business users only?

EDIT: Further example
320d xDrive Sport Saloon with optional metallic paint, 36 months, £309.00 inc £5,459.00 deposit (I think).

Also, I don't think that starting with the tail end of an engine sale is a good idea. Even Ford have realised with with the Mustang, and have gone for something much, much more sensible for the European market. While halo superdiesel-cars are all very nice, FCA may have seen a warning go off with the recent diesel scandal and would prefer to wait for the results of the problems to filter through fully. After which, we may find high performance diesels suddenly arrive.
 

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Well, I'll assume that corporate strategists of FCA are better at business than I am for the moment and take their word for the engine offers. ;)

According the Sytner, the cheapest 3er is ~£329, which is well above the £200 you state. Lets assume that you can knock some off for whatever reason, where is this £200 figure coming from? :confused:
This is also with a customer deposit of £5000.

Even the 116d starts at £299 on a low deposit. :confused:

Is this for business users only?

EDIT: Further example
320d xDrive Sport Saloon with optional metallic paint, 36 months, £309.00 inc £5,459.00 deposit (I think).

Also, I don't think that starting with the tail end of an engine sale is a good idea. Even Ford have realised with with the Mustang, and have gone for something much, much more sensible for the European market. While halo superdiesel-cars are all very nice, FCA may have seen a warning go off with the recent diesel scandal and would prefer to wait for the results of the problems to filter through fully. After which, we may find high performance diesels suddenly arrive.
Nope for private use, the 335D I bought cost £349.00 / 4K deposit (with extra's like pro-nav) and there's 17K difference (list) between mine and a 320D. I got some quotes on a 220D / 320D for my partner as well, it was £207.58 a month with 3K deposit.. Of course my partner wanted a 220D convertible which cost a fair whack more..

The price differences when you get in the dealer and get some actual quotes are astounding, also time of year helps as well. Places like C2C (coast 2 coast) will do similar deals for you..

Mustang, sensible? You call a 5.0LV8 (which the majority of Mustangs sold is a V8) sensible? :D

It doesn't have to be a "super-halo" diesel, the 2.4JTDM with a remap was easily capable of 260HP.. Yeah I get other parts / components would need to be higher grade to support it for long term duarability. But it's a reasonable and easily attainable figure. As the OP's snippet said as well, they probably aren't even releasing the 2.2D in USA and over here legistration is no where near as strict. So it wouldn't matter to them...

Edit: Seems compared to some, which mine is over 48 months I didn't get the best deal out of everyone either:

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1217459&highlight=335d+deals
 

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Some people wont even consider anything other than a BMW whatever the BHP of other cars are. Myself, I dont want to drive a car that 'looks' like a repmobile whatever is under the bonnet. The 250bhp petrol will do nicely.
 
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Some people wont even consider anything other than a BMW whatever the BHP of other cars are. Myself, I dont want to drive a car that 'looks' like a repmobile whatever is under the bonnet. The 250bhp petrol will do nicely.
That might not be the case if the Giulia hopefully does become succesful, then it may be a repmobile if company car drivers like it.
 

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"Finally, why would I want a Ghibli? I have a perfectly fine 335D right here .."

You might want something different ?
' saw some in Rome last week and I could see why the heart might win over the head.
 

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"Finally, why would I want a Ghibli? I have a perfectly fine 335D right here .."

You might want something different ?
' saw some in Rome last week and I could see why the heart might win over the head.
Pfff, if I was talking mazzer money I'd have the Gran Turismo big petrol sport thingy..! I'd have to get seat covers for the amount of drool..
 

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Perhaps they're thinking along the lines of the Merc AMG tuning chip options you can specify direct from the main dealers. Buy the 210 and then for an extra £xxxx you can have a factory approved upgrade to the map.
 

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Now you've got a BMW , not an Alfa , and you return here to discuss BMW . I just wondered if it'd be the same the other way around?
 

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Now you've got a BMW , not an Alfa , and you return here to discuss BMW . I just wondered if it'd be the same the other way around?
Actually it kinda is like that, I defend Alfa to the hills and back. As much as I like to believe I'm fairly neutral the Alfa fanboy does tend to pop out every now and again, especially when they say Alfa's are un-reliable pieces of trash..

Which some of the older ones (147 / GT / 156) did have its design flaws, but no worse than any other manufacturers car I've had and the Giulietta was so reliable it was a little dull. The 159 / 156 (diesels) will always have a special place in my mind.

Look, it comes down to this.. I replace cars quickly and my choices are limited, never had the desire to get an Audi, never been into Merc's unless it's an AMG, I like the Octavia VRS but it's a bit down on power so won't buy one. I've been looking for a true replacement to the 159, went through a "hot hatch" stage in the mean time.

So for the sake of options if nothing else, I want Alfa to do well.. I really do hope they knock it out the park, but it feels a little on shaky ground at the moment. I hope the excellent range of petrols swings it for them, I'll definatley be checking out the 330HP model next year.

P.S, it's a little hard not to compare the Giulia to a BMW / Audi it's who they're aiming for right?
 

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P.S, it's a little hard not to compare the Giulia to a BMW / Audi it's who they're aiming for right?
You know, I dont think they are, well, not directly, they dont expect the volume. IMO, so many Audi and BMW owners dont believe anything else on the planet with 4 wheels is worth even looking at other than those two marques. But some people, maybe like you, are more open minded about their cars, like I see in your previous post. But I have to join Cue2 in feeling you are more BMW than Alfa Romeo, you have a lot of criticism. At the moment the engine range is not really official, there may be others so dont be too critical before the full story is out.

Its clear you are enjoying your BMW, but you cant compare the engine range in the new Giulia because like the rest of us, we havent seen one yet let alone driven one.
 

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I'm not too fussed by the lack of a big diesel. The 4 cylinder diesels will always be the big sellers in the range anyway, and for every person enthusing over the power of their 330/335 there are a dozen who have chosen from their lease list a 320D. So that's where the money is. And I think that's covered.

The gap between real world petrol and diesel fuel consumption is narrowing with latest generation petrol engines closing the gap on diesel figures. Alfa need petrol more than diesel to crack the USA (an act of unusual prescience given VW's issues). So petrol is coming back into a more competitive position.

Don't be too focused on power. A mid range 1350kg 180hp Alfa should be quicker, handle better and feel more sporty than a 1420kg , 190hp BMW. To be clear, I don't know actual kerb weights, I'm just pointing out that weight is the key player in performance, not just power. I watched a nearly new M5 at a trackday recently being held by both a 3.5 litre Alfa 75 V6 and a lightweight 105 series Giulia. It took him 6 laps to get by the Giulia (and he was let by) and in fact the 75 V6 was patently faster and ready to pass him by the end. All were experienced drivers, the M5 driver was complaining that there was just no way to avoid the weight penalty in the corners which really slowed him up.

I'm not sure how much a big diesel is needed as a Halo car either. When you've got a 500hp car elsewhere in the range, I think that meets the brief.

It's all down to competitive performance and purchase / lease rates. I think what's there does not leave many big gaps and if there's a more powerful diesel (which preferably doesn't weigh the front end down with an unmanageable hunk of metal) to come then that'd be nice, but not essential. Bear in mind that the Jag XF only got round to a 2 litre diesel after about 5 years when you'd have thought that was essential to the range, it's amazing how much you can do with an imperfect range.

Also bear in mind that if they've got their heads screwed on right in Engine Design, new engines will have plenty of room for future expansion - witness how the 1750 TBI engine has gone up in power over the years.
 
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