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Discussion Starter #1
looks a little more complex than the undercarriage placement on the 159 JTD









looks like its located near the engine block and maybe not designed to be extracted easily without lifting the block out
 

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pardon me for questioning, but guys are you still thinking about diesels after all problems that they are bringing to environment and will bring to you in very near future? I hear that in UK some cities have already introduced special city tax for diesels, while here in Germany they are announcing Blaue Plakette which should prohibit current 80-90% of diesel powered cars from entering the cities.

I assume that new Giulia's diesel is EUR6 which should enable you getting that Blaue Plakette (or equivalent) but with all the prices, economical turbo-benziners, diesel price and extra tax, does it really make business case for you?

from my (personal) perspective LPG makes much more sense. yup, at the beginning is investment, but after 30k KM you are break-even (ROI). after that only goodies for you (here in Germany, LPG is currently 0.45-0.60 EUR per litre) and all the time goodies for environment.

just a thought!
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
mash4077, just for your interest

diesel prices in Australia currently is $1.10 per litre
super 98 Shell is $1.47 per litre

it used to cost me $80 to refill 550klms worth of diesel travel in a 159 2.4 JTD (when diesel cost $1.26) today would be $68
i currently own a turbopetrol which costs me $75 to refill 550klms worth of travel (at current $1.47)
I also used to drive LPG and it was marginally cheaper but had to fill a 100 litre tank to get the same sort of mileage (650klms per tank if i recall @ 0.69 per litre = $69ish) today its $.60 = $60

all different sized engines, LPG was 6 cylinder, turbopetrol is 4 cylinder and diesel was 5 cylinder, but all within a reasonable spread, however i think the diesel currently looks more economical than petrol, so in Australia initial sales of diesels may be affected by the current price and may prove popular

1 AUD = .64 Euro

.60 AUD= .38Euro (LPG)
1.1 AUD = .70Euro(diesel)
1.47 AUD = .94Euro (Shell V Power 98)

i think i did those calculations correctly, LPG is more economical but diesel also looks attractive at the present time
 

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mash4077, just for your interest

diesel prices in Australia currently is $1.10 per litre
super 98 Shell is $1.47 per litre

it used to cost me $80 to refill 550klms worth of diesel travel in a 159 2.4 JTD (when diesel cost $1.26) today would be $68
i currently own a turbopetrol which costs me $75 to refill 550klms worth of travel (at current $1.47)
I also used to drive LPG and it was marginally cheaper but had to fill a 100 litre tank to get the same sort of mileage (650klms per tank if i recall @ 0.69 per litre = $69ish) today its $.60 = $60

all different sized engines, LPG was 6 cylinder, turbopetrol is 4 cylinder and diesel was 5 cylinder, but all within a reasonable spread, however i think the diesel currently looks more economical than petrol, so in Australia initial sales of diesels may be affected by the current price and may prove popular

1 AUD = .64 Euro

.60 AUD= .38Euro (LPG)
1.1 AUD = .70Euro(diesel)
1.47 AUD = .94Euro (Shell V Power 98)

i think i did those calculations correctly, LPG is more economical but diesel also looks attractive at the present time

hi PapaGallo

do not know which system you were using for LPG, but nowadays, they have also direct injection systems which bring your consumption and power to same level as gasoline (check for example Vialle)

second, when doing comparison, try to do it fair: do not compare 6 cylinder vs 4 pot, since the consumptions differ gasoline to gasoline on those engines

economic calculation I have based on experiences here in Germany:

  • 0.45-0.6 EUR per L vs 1.28-1.40 EUR per L (LPG vs gasoline)
  • 1.20-1.25 EUR per L vs 1.28-1.40 EUR per L (diesel vs gasoline)
  • for Smart ForTwo that I once owned (was diesel and had Grüne Plakette) tax was 4x bigger!
  • diesels more expensive to buy (now situation bit changing after Dieselgate)
  • new LPG systems now maintenance free (so no additional costs)
 
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Discussion Starter #8
it was just a generalised calculation based on cost per kilometres travelled between diesel and petrol, but yes LPG is cheaper, cleaner etc, no argument there

especially with your other fuel prices being much higher than ours
 

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..here in ireland we have a similarly odd regime where diesel is cheaper than petrol, and these days you can actually taste the diesel fumes as you stroll through leafy Dublin. I think 70% of new cars here are diesel..

So i can't help thinking, if you want the benefits of cheap fuel that's fine, but the least you could do is not poison the rest of us while your at it with DPF deletes and whatever the hell else you dieselists get up to :biglaugh:
 

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Very interesting slides, do you have the whole presentation, essentially it seems to have two EGR systems now, a hot EGR system (essentially like we have today), and a low pressure EGR system (which seems to overcome several issues we have today as the gas has been filtered by the EGR.

Q: When does the Engine use each part? (Hot EGR can be beneficial warming up a cold engine, only advantage I can see!)
Q: Thats double the number of parts that can go wrong...

Found a little bit online...no much though:
Alfa Romeo presented a summary of their 2.2 L diesel engine for the new Alfa Romeo Giulia [E. Bonamassa]. This is the first all-aluminum engine for FCA and comes in two ratings; 132 kW/450 Nm and 155 kW/470 Nm. The cast iron block engine it replaces was rated at 147 kW and 440 Nm. The aluminum block is produced with a low-pressure die-cast process developed by FCA subsidiary Teksid and yields an engine 30 kg lighter than the cast iron version. The single Honeywell VNT turbocharger is integrated into an insulated exhaust manifold, has a ball bearing cartridge, water cooled center housing and for the 155 kW engine, comes with a turbocharger speed sensor to allow maximizing boost pressure while avoiding over-speeding during transients and high altitude. A dual loop EGR system ensures sufficient EGR flow at all operating conditions. The aftertreatment system consists of a NOx adsorber and DPF. For RDE, a urea SCR catalyst will be incorporated.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Very interesting slides, do you have the whole presentation, essentially it seems to have two EGR systems now, a hot EGR system (essentially like we have today), and a low pressure EGR system (which seems to overcome several issues we have today as the gas has been filtered by the EGR.

Q: When does the Engine use each part? (Hot EGR can be beneficial warming up a cold engine, only advantage I can see!)
Q: Thats double the number of parts that can go wrong...

Found a little bit online...no much though:
it was part of a series of slides and i just extracted the EGR/DPF bits, here is the whole series as posted on Facebook, it came without a narrative






























 

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Thanks for posting great detail in it. It could be there are a couple of solutions for the EGR, a full delete (both low and high pressure/temperature sections), or a partial EGR delete i.e just the low or high pressure section).

By blanking the later, it may have some advantages, as the high pressure section is the hotter, sootier section (into the manifold), along with reducing turbo speed. However by keeping to low pressure section, you may help maintain lower NOx emissions that 'could' (no evidence on this point yet) be measured under future MOTs.

I have to add that I've yet to full understand the performance and works of the low pressure section, so my assumptions may not be quite right.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App[/color
 

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With the recent news around diesel emissions, deleting the DPF will probably make your car illegal to drive on the public road.

From 2017, the new EU driving test cycle will add a need for a Selective Catalytic Reduction system (Urea injection).

But seriously - if you want performance, buy the damned petrol engine. Don't poison the rest of us.
 

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With the recent news around diesel emissions, deleting the DPF will probably make your car illegal to drive on the public road.

From 2017, the new EU driving test cycle will add a need for a Selective Catalytic Reduction system (Urea injection).

But seriously - if you want performance, buy the damned petrol engine. Don't poison the rest of us.
Modern direct injection petrols have a serious particulate problem as well. Really tiny invisible particles that penetrate deep within the lungs. Not saying diesel is better, (its clearly not) but petrol is bad too, you just can't see it and the world's focus is not on it.
 

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I'll fix your statement for you. :)

Modern direct injection petrol engines have a potential particulate problem as well. Really tiny invisible particles that penetrate deep within the lungs and are potential cancer causing. Diesel is much worse than petrol so the currently legislation is designed to address the worse fuel first. But with Euro 6c standards petrol will have to comply with particulate emissions as well.
 

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..here in ireland we have a similarly odd regime where diesel is cheaper than petrol, and these days you can actually taste the diesel fumes as you stroll through leafy Dublin. I think 70% of new cars here are diesel..

So i can't help thinking, if you want the benefits of cheap fuel that's fine, but the least you could do is not poison the rest of us while your at it with DPF deletes and whatever the hell else you dieselists get up to :biglaugh:
Actually, more on the same point...I have to question what the heck people put in their diesel cars' tanks around here.

Year and years ago, Italy was taken by storm by the news that rapeseed oil could be effectively used as a diesel fuel additive. Regardless of the recommendations from manufacturers not to do so as it'd potentially damage injection systems and the pistons/cylinders themselves, people still did pour cooking oil in their tanks - and literally two cars out of three left behind the unmistakable smell of a dirty chipper joint (friggitoria in Italian, for the curious). You could literally take a stroll downtown Rome or Naples and go back home with your clothes smelling like fried food (and that's without walking in any pizza place)!

A lot of diesel cars around Dublin, and Ireland in general, leave behind a foul, rotting-flesh-tasting stench that is not that of diesel fuel; A few days ago I was waiting for the DART when a commuter diesel train passed through the station - and THAT is the smell of diesel; lorries on the road produce the same smell as the trains.

So what the heck are people doing? Diluting their diesel with silage or something?
 

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So what the heck are people doing? Diluting their diesel with silage or something?
You're close with "silage"... Not to put too fine a point on it, but you're probably smelling the residual chemicals that were used to scrub the chemical markers from the Agri Diesel it left the refinery as.

There's lots of laundered diesel in circulation in Dublin. It's the biggest fuel market in the country, and it's got a high enough concentration of a certain type of person who won't mind funding "The Cause" whatever way they can.

Taxi drivers will generally go for the cheapest fuel they can, and to hell with where it came from.
 

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I'm looking forward to the day when cars which have had their DPFs and/or EGRs deleted can be spotted during an MOT test and if found, the cars be confiscated and the owner heavily fined, much like those who drive without insurance.

If you don't want to have a DPF & EGR, buy a different car. Don't go round polluting the environment & making people ill by removing devices designed to control emissions.
 

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pardon me for questioning, but guys are you still thinking about diesels after all problems that they are bringing to environment and will bring to you in very near future? I hear that in UK some cities have already introduced special city tax for diesels, while here in Germany they are announcing Blaue Plakette which should prohibit current 80-90% of diesel powered cars from entering the cities.

I assume that new Giulia's diesel is EUR6 which should enable you getting that Blaue Plakette (or equivalent) but with all the prices, economical turbo-benziners, diesel price and extra tax, does it really make business case for you?

from my (personal) perspective LPG makes much more sense. yup, at the beginning is investment, but after 30k KM you are break-even (ROI). after that only goodies for you (here in Germany, LPG is currently 0.45-0.60 EUR per litre) and all the time goodies for environment.

just a thought!
How durable-reliable do you think is a modified engine with the LPG kit?
 

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I find the subject of this thread quite distasteful and initially put it down to somebody joking about what the less socially responsible 159 owners get up to. There is an issue with the Diesel engine which the manufacturers attempt to fix and you're talking about undoing this?
 
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