Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello all

Just over a week ago, the clutch on my 147 Ducati Corse failed. I got her recovered to a garage who diagnosed a worn clutch and DMF in need of replacement. They ordered the clutch kit themselves, but their supplier wanted £700 for a DMF. I found one on partsworld-uk for £270 (genuine, direct from Alfa), which is such a huge saving that I asked the garage if they would let me order it myself, which they agreed to.

Cut to today, they got the car back together and advise me that upon starting the engine, the car made a loud screeching noise and wouldn't allow a gear to be selected.

Their diagnosis is that the DMF I sourced is faulty. I have arranged for partsworld to send a replacement free of charge, but the problem for me now is that I am liable for all of the labour costs of taking the car apart and fitting the second DMF. In light of that, I just want to make sure that their diagnosis sounds feasible, otherwise I'm paying hundreds in labour for what might be their mistake in fitting the clutch or something.

Can anyone offer some advice on this please?

Thanks
Tom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,347 Posts
Sounds more like clutch than DMF to me,unless they have fitted a different make clutch to the DMF. I.e Sachs clutch kits won’t fit LUK DMF and vice versa.
So essentially you could pay the labour have replacement DMF fitted and have same problem
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
They ordered the clutch kit from Alfa dealer and the DMF I ordered is OEM as well. Should be OK?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
A genuine DMF for less than half price would set my alarms bells ringing....
They're a similar price from multiple sources online. Spoke to a very helpful guy at partsworld earlier who said that they come direct from alfa, and he's sending another one and collecting the first for free.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
46,272 Posts
Clutch plate fitted the right way?
They're shrink-wrapped the wrong way around in the packaging they're supplied in... So they wouldn't be the first to fit them the wrong way around.

Could also be faulty DMF.

Tough situation to be in for both parties.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
i've bought 2 items from partsworld and they were both in genuine alfa parts bags, so it's a pretty safe 100% that thw DMF is the genuine article.
So its a genuine alfa dual mass flywheel that comes direct from alfa romeo,the garage in question cannot source a DMF superior to this genuine part, they just wanted to make a few bob on the parts.
The seller has even agreed to replace FOC and collect i'd say they are pretty confident in the parts they sell.

So that only leaves the clutch and the garage, what clutch kit is it and where was it sourced?

Garages do make mistakes its human nature, but a reputable mechanic at a reputable garage will have changed 1000's of clutches he may or may not get it wrong sometimes, you have to prove that they have caused this, that will be not an easy task.

Look at your options, if both are genuine items or the clutch is of a high quality that will come with it's own guarantee then you can demand to see that clutch and send it off for analysis to see what they say it was the mechanics error or say that there item has catastrophically damaged beyond repair.

The garage are hoping your not going to challenge and pay the bill, you have to choose either accept what they are telling you,

or take it further, hard earned cash isnt to be thrown away perse.

You could have the car inspected independantly i beleive the garage have to allow this. its not going to be a quick result.

Hope you getted it sorted out and you are happy with the result
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
4,556 Posts
They're shrink-wrapped the wrong way around in the packaging they're supplied in... So they wouldn't be the first to fit them the wrong way around.

Could also be faulty DMF.

Tough situation to be in for both parties.
But, clutches don’t actually fit the wrong way round. I often look at this. Does it fit “this,way” with the friction material hovering above the flywheel and resting on metal ... or does it fit “that way” with the friction material on the flywheel. Even with zero mechanical knowledge at all ... it’s fecking obvious.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,017 Posts
I've used Partsworld. It is their online shop of genuine dealer parts.

My money is on an incorrectly fitted clutch friction plate. I'd want photographic evidence of the parts. Something was rubbing something else and I'd want to know what is causing the noise.

It should be fairly obvious what is making the noise from examination of parts. Yes, I think fitting the plate the wrong way would likely produce the noise and lack of clutch disengagement.

As a consumer, you have to give them first try to remedy the fault. I think they should hold their hands up and cover the labour if they are honest and reputable.

I think it is quite likely it was fitted as packaged as that is the logical thing to do. Failure to try it both ways does not mean someone is cack-handed but it is an unfortunate situation to be in.

Who packages the German part for the Italian car?

German clutches have something like "getriebesette" printed on them which translates as gearbox side.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,347 Posts
They're shrink-wrapped the wrong way around in the packaging they're supplied in... So they wouldn't be the first to fit them the wrong way around.

Could also be faulty DMF.

Tough situation to be in for both parties.
But, clutches don’t actually fit the wrong way round. I often look at this. Does it fit “this,way” with the friction material hovering above the flywheel and resting on metal ... or does it fit “that way” with the friction material on the flywheel. Even with zero mechanical knowledge at all ... it’s fecking obvious.
Not if you look at it properly they don’t but they can be fitted the wrong way round. The friction plate can be fitted backwards although not correct it will go,and when trying to select gear will not work.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
46,272 Posts
But, clutches don’t actually fit the wrong way round. I often look at this. Does it fit “this,way” with the friction material hovering above the flywheel and resting on metal ... or does it fit “that way” with the friction material on the flywheel. Even with zero mechanical knowledge at all ... it’s fecking obvious.
The diesel clutch fits both ways around, its not sprung like a V6 clutch, both sides are the same. The only difference is the offset of the splined middle part. But I know what you mean - most clutches you couldn't do this with. And a quick google of "Lato Cambio" will tell you which side is which.

Another thought, the release bearing might have slipped off the fork while installing the box. That has happened to me before, I always click the release bearing into place now as soon as I've got a couple of bellhousing bolts tightened.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Thank you all for your insights. I'm going to speak to the garage later and tactfully suggest they check their work on the clutch side whilst waiting for the new flywheel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
Keep cool and work with the garage to get the car back on the road

With the best will in the world, we all make errors and we have to move on

Best of luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Just spoke to the garage again. They're saying that they are able to start the car in first gear with the clutch depressed, and even drive the car, but changing gear after that is very difficult. They think the fact that they are able to get this far would rule out a backwards friction plate or slipped release bearing.

Thoughts?
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
46,272 Posts
Just spoke to the garage again. They're saying that they are able to start the car in first gear with the clutch depressed, and even drive the car, but changing gear after that is very difficult. They think the fact that they are able to get this far would rule out a backwards friction plate or slipped release bearing.

Thoughts?
Sounds like a backwards friction plate to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Ok so what i can gather here is that firstly they couldnt get it in gear, now they are saying they can, hmmm i smell a garage who's installed the clutch wrongly an dont want to admit their mistake.

You took it to the said garage because you cannot do the job yourself, you put your trust and your money in their business to fix your car, they have supplied the clutch kit, maybe its a crap quality clutch, maybe its a good make, so for that part it's down to the garage to ensure that they are supplying you with parts that are fit for purpose.

They are using the fact the you sourced your own genuine alfa romeo DMF as an excuse as to why this has occured, it smacks of a wrongly fitted clutch, and they are probably not going to tell you they have f**ked up by fitting incorrectly, and like i said before are hoping you bite the bullet and just stump up the cash.

I would be asking what make of clutch kit it was, and tell them that you are unhappy with their explanation that a brand new clutch and a brand new DMF has failed straight away, it extremely unlikely that both brand new parts have failed, which leaves only human error.

I would get some advise from someone who can help swing the result your way, garages dont like being called out, but they may do it as a "goodwill gesture" to save face.

I wouldnt tell them that your getting advise off a forum either (no disrespect to anyone on here) because the garage will use that against you,

taken off which, its not gospel, i dont personally endorse it but it is saying what i beleive:

"My car has been damaged

When you take your car into a garage, it's protected under the law of bailment, which says that anyone you entrust with your property has a responsibility to take reasonable care of it.

If they fall short of this, they're responsible for any damage or loss incurred while your car is in their possession.

In addition, the Consumer Rights Act (which replaces the Supply of Goods and Services Act from 1 October 2015) says that your garage must provide its service with reasonable care and skill and will be responsible for any damaged caused if it doesn't.

Garages might display notices denying responsibility for loss or damage to vehicles in their possession.

But under the Consumer Rights Act, which replaces the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999, these can't be used to try and take away, limit or restrict your legal rights.

Whatever the cause, it’s very unlikely that a court would uphold a garage’s claim to be exempt from all responsibility.

Should your car be damaged, you can claim compensation for the loss or damage and potentially, reasonable expenses incurred as a result, such as the cost of alternative transport while your car was off the road.

Before incurring such costs, give the garage a chance to cover them or help with your arrangements"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Thanks, diablo. I asked him to check the fitment of the clutch earlier. Hoping he calls back tomorrow to say that it was in backwards and to come collect my car! Otherwise I will have to ask some questions as you say...
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top