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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Anyone seen this story yet? Doesn't make for happy reading I'm afraid. :(

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=24900

If the story is to be believed, it seems that petrol stations will be selling higher ethanol mix fuel called E10 (at least 10% ethanol) from 2013 and we can expect this to become a legal requirement before long as EU legislation takes a hold.

The problem apparently is that these higher ethanol mixes may not be suitable for many older engines because they can have a corrosive effect on the seals and some alloy components in the fuel system. Modern engines have apparently been built to withstand this.

There is a list of cars which are approved for use with E10. Unsurprisingly the Busso V6 isn't on there, although someone more technically minded than me may be able to comment on whether they think the Busso can withstand higher ethanol in practice or, if not, whether seals etc could be upgraded to deal with the problem?

I suspect this won't be an issue for quite a while as petrol stations would have to sell both types of fuel in the short term. But it doesn't take Nostradamus to predict that the old non E10 fuel is likely to become increasingly expensive. It also seems that higher ethanol content (up to 9%) will be allowed in non E10 fuel. The current permissible level is 5% before it has to be labelled as high ethanol content. Again I don't know whether that should be a worry to us.

The worst case scenario I suppose is that longer term non E10 may even start to be phased out completely like leaded petrol was.

So the moral of this story is drive your GTAs while you can still fuel 'em!

Happy Christmas everyone!
 

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It could be that they didn't list the Busso v6 because it's not a current production engine?


Won't be long before someone invents a solution. Apart from the fuel lines (plastic), fuel hoses (rubber) and the injector internals and o-ring seals... all of which are bog-standard stuff and should be Ethanol resistant already... I'm not sure there's many components to be potentially affected by a bit extra ethanol..?

Ralf S.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It could be that they didn't list the Busso v6 because it's not a current production engine?
I did think that but there's an awful lot of other non-current production engines on the list!

You're probably right about the rest though. If the issue is the corrosive effect of the ethanol you would think that an anti-corrosion additive could be developed?
 
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Having looked at that list, my old Mondeo will be fine on the new fuel....that's alright then:rolleyes:
 

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i used to engineer for a sidecar race team and we used methanol in the engines, it was alright on the standard coatings if you flushed it out after each race, but if you left it in the carbs or engine for any length of time it would destroy the internals.
i think as far as fuel technology goes the Ethanol fuel mix is the best option but it is not going to be good for our engines in the long term
They do have an E85 which was used in a few select cars which is only available at a very few number of pumps, i think there was an Exige S and Saab turbo that could use it
 

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Bringing this back up again it would seem the E10 invasion is heading this way for 2014 and to be sold along side E5. Eventually E10 will be in all lower grade (95ron) manufacturers petrol's with only super hanging on. This is looking more and more worrying :(
 

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So what's the main concern? It will rot the seals in the engine? By 'super' being the only fuel without this e10, do you mean the 'premium' fuels like nitro+, bp ultimate etc?
 

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Surely there's a solution like when leaded was phased out??
You can still buy leaded from a little private garage within the Ford forecourt about 50metres from my house :) It's expensive, but you do get to sit in the car whilst he fills you up and checks all your fluid levels :) proper 'oldskool' little set up
 

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Basically there is a huge list but I'll post the main concerns from what I've read

Reduced MPG
Water ingress from fuel left standing (2-3 week shelf life) which leads to lower octain rating
Destruction of seals and pipework ( basically from what I can see the fuel system becomes a giant sieve.... Mmm safe)
Galvanic corrosion on other engine components
Vapour lock on hot days.

Doesn't sound fantastic to me. While I understand the concerns of making fuel viable this doesn't look like a sensible option. I'm certainly no expert on this nd if anyone knows better then please tell me now as personally I'm really worried


And yes fewleh by super i mean shell v etc
 

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Fewleh I didn't even think it was legal to still sell leaded!? We all know they're trying to get cars like ours off the road and this is just the latest. But some person smarter than I will surely come up with a solution. As N.I is a bit behind mainland I've hopefully got a few years yet!
 

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Always use premium fuel anyway in my JTS. Sounds like the usual PH scaremongering which, after blowing something out of all proportion, usually comes to nothing.
 

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We have had e10 in all 95 octane fuel for a couple of years already. The solution for me has been using 98/v-power which is still e5, so haven't bought a single litre of 95 since 2010 :D e10 is 5-or-so cents more expensive per litre, but I figure it's even play considering the better mpg of e5. And on a personal note it doesn't feel right to turn food into fuel while people are starving (not that they'll get any more food due to me running fossile fuels either, but I'm not claiming to be logical :))

The worries were the same when e10 was introduced here too, but strangely I haven't heard about anyone having worse problems than increased consumption.
 

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From what I read it's been in Germany for a couple of years too but most people haven't risked it which may be the reason you aren't hearing anything much either :)
 
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