It has got Diesel fuel in it and not petrol.?

 

Of course it has diesel in it

 

It's quite hard to read.
But I see in the middle that an auto electrician made a difference so I would focus on that.
Before his intervention it would only start with the addition of 'Easy Start' and that says there is insufficient heat to fire the Diesel Fuel.
After his intervention you seem to be chasing a different problem. It just needs a logical sequence of checks.

 

 

Rpm high enough to start? You need 250 rpm minimum. The easy start could be pushing you over.

RPM over 250
Fuel pressure over 300
Battery voltage over 10V while cranking, ideally
No mismatch in crank/cam timing

Then the car should start.

I did however have 1 car that would only run when the dpf was doing a regen, the ecu would fire the wrong injectors. That required an ecu replacement

I don't see any videos or pictures btw. To insert a video you need to upload to something like youtube first then link to that.

 

https://youtube.com/channel/UCIH9ynLyVzsWucsvi-j_qAg

 

30 December 2020

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

Are you getting any smoke out the back? (i.e the injectors are firing) Are the injectors getting a signal (what is the correction values for them?), IIRC there was a common issues with the injector loom, especially on the 2.4 engine.
Also check the signal to the low presure pump, it runs through the fuse box by the drivers knee, has a connection, then to the boot. Number of people (including myself) have had issues with it.

 

No smoke when cranking but if there was no injectors firing why would it start and run fine with a squirt of easy?.
Low pressure pump primes and runs perfectly (should do for the price!)

 

The first video (where it starts) sounds like a Diesel that is not pre heating and therefore continued cranking eventually gets enough heat to fire the mixture

 

https://youtube.com/channel/UCIH9ynLyVzsWucsvi-j_qAg

Four brand new exact model Bosch glow plugs with a brand New Bosch glow plug module fitted,tested and fully working

 

And I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the fuel pressure readings while cranking because they are a view at timed intervals

 

But it is odd that it doesn’t start once it’s reached the injector firing threshold and that the pressure plummets surely?

 

Hi
might not be much help but..you said you checked the fuses etc. My mate had an insignia with an identical problem and as far as i remember it turned out to be a faulty fuse or relay that was for a totally different function and something you would never think would affect starting,
He said you need to test them to be sure.... i know different car etc but

 

I have tested every relay and replaced every fuse with new ones and ground back every earth point

 

Your electrician also stated that no fuel was coming out of the injectors, can you check that they are getting a signal? find it odd that the engine is not even stuttering when starting if you are meeting the right parameters.

 

My electrician stated?,how do you know what my electrician stated?,I don’t remember you being there?!
Yes they are getting a firing signal that could be seen with multiscan and with the auto electricians equipment

 

I think it's time to throw the towel in with this one. Break it or send it to Autolusso (other specialists are available) who can probably sort it quicker than anyone.

 

It’s been to a specialist and another garage to no avail

 

Well there's a fault somewhere. I've been in similar situations myself and I understand your frustration. From experience it's a case of starting again checking the basics first. Often it's something simple. It's unlikely to be something that you've changed so there's something that has been missed.

It's difficult to diagnose online too.

 

I'm just going to spitball some ideas here so please ignore any that you've already looked at. (Or are just dumb!)

To me the high pressure and it not even sounding like it wants to start suggest none firing injectors.

Have you taken the injectors out and tested they are actually supplying fuel on start up?(The old take out of the cylinder head and spray into a cup job.) If they're new then they should have a good spray but if not then there's clearly an issue between them and the ecu.

Do you get any smoke when it does eventually start? If not this suggests that the injectors aren't firing when cranking. If you do then there is either not enough heat, air or compression

Compression issue that 'fixes' itself when the cylinder is warmed (and thus bits expand) by the cranking?

Failed head gasket?

Air lock in the fuel system?

Water in the fuel system?

Drained fuel and tried with fresh?

Worn cam?

Taken off the induction piping and tried starting without all the guffins attached?

Double checked all the other new bits fitted in the correct manner? (I know, but sometimes it's the dumbest things)

These are just things that it could be and random ideas I've had that you could try.

As it stands you're faced with a choice of throwing more money at it or cutting your losses.

 

Still having non starting issues with my wife’s 2009 159ti 2.0jtdm!.
This is how the story goes.....
Car was stalling whilst in traffic and whilst slowing down.
Then one day it just refused to start at all!.
So..... I replaced the crank sensor with a brand new Bosch one..no change.
Couldn’t hear the in tank fuel pump priming so checked fuses and relays,all were good,so pulled out the pump,hooked it up to 12v,nothing!!.
Yeeeeah I thought there’s the problem.
Bought a brand new Bosch pump,stuck it in,put new connectors on the fuel lines,one way valves,new fuel lines,ignition on and off it went priming and bled it up to the brand new fuel filter.
Still won’t start?!!.
Stuck it on diagnostics and got (what you see in the video) back?.
Tried a new Bosch high pressure pump on it....no change!!.
Four brand new Bosch injectors....no change!!.
New Bosch fuel pressure sensor...no change!!.
New cam sensor....no change! .
New Bosch glow plugs and control module.....no change!.
New Bosch MAF....no change!
New injector leak off pipes and the plastic thingy that sits near the hp pump.....no change!
It’s also had a brand new Bosch hd battery,brand new egr valve,all new fuses and relays,every earth point has been ground back.
I even sent the ECU off for testing and that came back with no faults?.
The car WILL start with a little squirt of easy start,it will drive 100% perfect with zero smoke or drama.
As soon as it’s turned off.....it’s back to not starting!!!??? .
Now as you can see by the video footage of the multiscan the rail pressure exceeds the requirements for it to start briefly but then plummets.
There are no leaks anywhere,all connections are tight!!.
I’ve tried three different rail pressure sensors.....all read the same ??
I genuinely haven’t got a clue now??
A quick update on this car
I have put on new quick release fuel line connectors and fuel lines from the tank to filter-to high pressure pump.
I recently had a auto electrician on the car for a day and he diagnosed it as a dodgy starter motor that was sucking so many amps that the Ecu wasn’t firing the injectors hence the rail pressure being all over the place!.
So....had a brand new starter motor fitted,picked the car up to drive the 20 miles back home and as soon as it was boosting on the turbo on came the engine management light came on!.
6miles from home the car started stalling to the point where it ended up getting recovered home!.
Same symptoms as a turbo hose split or off,checked the next day on upper and lower hoses and they are perfect.
So now I’m back to square one!!.
This is a list of what’s been replaced (all new Bosch parts apart from egr valve)
In tank fuel pump
High pressure fuel pump
Four brand new injectors
Fuel rail
Fuel rail sensor
Fuel pressure regulator
Leak off pipes
All new quick release fuel pipeline connectors and fuel lines
Fuel filter
All brand new fuses and relays
Egr valve
Camshaft sensor
Crankshaft sensor
Brand new Bosch high amp battery
New blade fuses on the battery connector
All earths ground back to metal.
Engine turns over like the clappers!,but still on multiscan the rail pressure goes above and beyond the pressure needed to fire up,but then drops as fast as it goes up?.(see video)
There are no leaks anywhere!!.
Getting close to burning it now!!
Cannot work out how to post videos on here?,anybody help please?

Hi , been reading your post , and wow you replaced nearly everything.
Did the car loosing power when driving ?
I check the cat if its blocked or maybe dpf, just disconnect the exhaust at the cat and try that , also check section control valve screwed into the injector pump.

 

JUST ASK AN AUSSIE!

 

Imho the fuel pressure drops when the injectors start to deliver. Stalling also points in this direction.
I had a similiar problem with an older jtd, there it was the above mentioned pressure pump control valve. Ok, yours is new, but it acts like the pump before, right? Have you considered residues / particles in the fuel system that clog the valve? Maybe the dying lp pump chucked some debris into the fuel circuit. Try to flush it. I did it using a tubesized magnet (the ones, that are attached to power chords) on the fuel exiting fuel line. Found a fair amount of metal particles.
But one thing is for sure: when you find the problem, your wife will have one of the best 2.0 jtdm in northern Europe, with all the items you have changed

 

OK, having re-read your original post, you had issues, changed huge amounts of things, final thing being the starter motor - and after that was changed, the car started OK and you drove it most of the way home before it cut out again.I think that's a summary. Not sure, but whilst it sounds like the car would run OK once started on Easy start before the starter motor was changed, you aren't clear on whether that is still the case.

It sounds to me like two issues - one the starter motor or possibly its wiring, and two, whatever is causing the engine management light to come on and perhaps cause the stalling. Starter issue may be solved, so we need to establish what caused the engine management light - it could just be sticky turbo vanes after a prolonged period of non-use, but without the fault code being read we can't be sure. Otherwise almost certainly an electrical fault, possibly an internal wiring break/short - my initial thought was that it was perhaps linked to the start/stop switch, and I would have suggested triggering the starter motor remotely to see if the car would start then, in case the start button was simultaneously triggering the starter and killing the engine - I'm not entirely sure how the stop circuitry works. If the car will still start on easy-start and then run, it might still be worth trying to bypass the starter switch.......

 

When you replaced the LP pump you fixed a definite fault, so it should have started, but didn’t. What had changed in the meantime was the crank sensor: so I would first check that the new sensor is seated correctly, so the distance from it to the phonic wheel is correct, and that its connections are clean, and then put the old one back in.

[Everything you do to increase the cranking speed: new starter, easy start helps starting. This points to a weak crank signal.]

[If this is correct, the pressure collapse is a symptom not the cause.]

 

The crank sensor is next to the starter so on second thoughts I think it was disturbed when the starter was changed and started working properly for long enough to get you most of the way home. The ‘turbo hose off’ symptoms may have been a result of the ecu trying to run the engine with a corrupted crank signal before it failed completely and stalled the engine. The lack of a code might be down to timing: the engine stalled before the ecu had completed its diagnostic tests.

I believe the logic of my first post holds: it’s rare for two separate faults to occur together. You fixed one with the new LP pump but the engine wouldn’t start, so there were two faults. It’s probable then that you created the second when you changed the crank sensor.

Crank sensors are variable reluctance devices so their output voltage increases with speed. A weak sensor/connection can therefore be compensated for by raising the speed, which is what you did with easy start. The engine will then run normally but never start at normal cranking speeds. You know this isn’t down to injector leak-back (which could have similar symptoms) because changing them didn’t change anything. I think the fuel pressure may be collapsing because the ecu knows it can’t run the engine without a crank signal and so shuts the LP pump down – that would be worth checking. [If per-chance the pump still runs when the pressure collapses then yes: pull the return lines off the injectors and look for a sudden flow of fuel as the pressure collapses.]

 

What are the error codes? Wondering that nobody asks...

 

Because there are/were none at all

 

Still having non starting issues with my wife’s 2009 159ti 2.0jtdm!.
This is how the story goes.....
Car was stalling whilst in traffic and whilst slowing down.
Then one day it just refused to start at all!.
So..... I replaced the crank sensor with a brand new Bosch one..no change.
Couldn’t hear the in tank fuel pump priming so checked fuses and relays,all were good,so pulled out the pump,hooked it up to 12v,nothing!!.
Yeeeeah I thought there’s the problem.
Bought a brand new Bosch pump,stuck it in,put new connectors on the fuel lines,one way valves,new fuel lines,ignition on and off it went priming and bled it up to the brand new fuel filter.
Still won’t start?!!.
Stuck it on diagnostics and got (what you see in the video) back?.
Tried a new Bosch high pressure pump on it....no change!!.
Four brand new Bosch injectors....no change!!.
New Bosch fuel pressure sensor...no change!!.
New cam sensor....no change! .
New Bosch glow plugs and control module.....no change!.
New Bosch MAF....no change!
New injector leak off pipes and the plastic thingy that sits near the hp pump.....no change!
It’s also had a brand new Bosch hd battery,brand new egr valve,all new fuses and relays,every earth point has been ground back.
I even sent the ECU off for testing and that came back with no faults?.
The car WILL start with a little squirt of easy start,it will drive 100% perfect with zero smoke or drama.
As soon as it’s turned off.....it’s back to not starting!!!??? .
Now as you can see by the video footage of the multiscan the rail pressure exceeds the requirements for it to start briefly but then plummets.
There are no leaks anywhere,all connections are tight!!.
I’ve tried three different rail pressure sensors.....all read the same ??
I genuinely haven’t got a clue now??
A quick update on this car
I have put on new quick release fuel line connectors and fuel lines from the tank to filter-to high pressure pump.
I recently had a auto electrician on the car for a day and he diagnosed it as a dodgy starter motor that was sucking so many amps that the Ecu wasn’t firing the injectors hence the rail pressure being all over the place!.
So....had a brand new starter motor fitted,picked the car up to drive the 20 miles back home and as soon as it was boosting on the turbo on came the engine management light came on!.
6miles from home the car started stalling to the point where it ended up getting recovered home!.
Same symptoms as a turbo hose split or off,checked the next day on upper and lower hoses and they are perfect.
So now I’m back to square one!!.
This is a list of what’s been replaced (all new Bosch parts apart from egr valve)
In tank fuel pump
High pressure fuel pump
Four brand new injectors
Fuel rail
Fuel rail sensor
Fuel pressure regulator
Leak off pipes
All new quick release fuel pipeline connectors and fuel lines
Fuel filter
All brand new fuses and relays
Egr valve
Camshaft sensor
Crankshaft sensor
Brand new Bosch high amp battery
New blade fuses on the battery connector
All earths ground back to metal.
Engine turns over like the clappers!,but still on multiscan the rail pressure goes above and beyond the pressure needed to fire up,but then drops as fast as it goes up?.(see video)
There are no leaks anywhere!!.
Getting close to burning it now!!
Cannot work out how to post videos on here?,anybody help please?

Have a look at this Does an electric fuel pump need a return line? - Quora

 

Have a look at this Does an electric fuel pump need a return line? - Quora

That's a hint.

 

The eml lit up with no error codes stored? That's odd, isn't it?

 

"Odd" a nice way of saying this bloke hasn't got a clue? We call them MMs. (menace to machinery)

 

Could be the ECU that is clueless. You had it checked, I know. But isn't it strange, EML and no stored faults?

 

Sub standard reader would be my guess.....my car had "no faults found" on my old generic reader....then ALFAObd found 6!!!

 

Well you guessed wrong and didn’t watch the video links I posted!.
I use a fully paid and registered fiat multiscan

 

If it ain't set for ALFA (and software updated) you're wasting your time

 

And you haven’t read the post properly or watched the videos posted which clearly show a fully registered and paid fiat multiscan being used!,it’s all I use on my cars

 

Just a thought, more related to the EML and stalling after having managed to get the car started, but I had an EGR failure which caused very rough idle and stalling at tickover - plus difficulty restarting. Before I was able to fit a new EGR, I disconnected the MAF which enabled easier starting and a smooth idle for a week or so (before the new EGR could be fitted). Original EGR's electronic part had failed,....