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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
“LONDON/NEW YORK (Financial Times) -- Fiat Chrysler is in advanced discussions to forge extensive ties with France's Renault as the carmakers seek to join forces to tackle the structural challenges facing the global auto industry, according to multiple people informed on the talks.

The agreement may ultimately lead the carmaker to join the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance in the future, some of these people added, while also warning that this outcome would mean taking a complicated path that would involve winning over Japan's Nissan.

The talks are focused on the potential for extensive co-operation between FCA and Renault, which is the dominant partner in the alliance with Nissan and is seeking to secure a future for the partnership following the arrest of longtime leader Carlos Ghosn eight months ago in Tokyo.

The discussions are ongoing and could still fall apart, these people said, cautioning that a number of structures and options are being considered. There is no guarantee the wide-ranging talks will lead to an agreement.

It is unclear to what extent Japan's Nissan has been involved so far in the discussion, these people said. One person said Nissan has had no involvement with the talks so far.”
 

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Anything that ensures survival will be welcome, but, having been seasick in a Renault Scenic, I dread to imagine the threads on here when the Alfa-badged version is launched.
 

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Doesn't seem like a bad idea. They've already collaborated with the Fiat Talento, which is a re-badged Renault Trafic, and the Fiat Fullback (Mitsubishi L200) and have a good spread of brands - Fiat could share parts with Renault & Nissan and Jeep (and less so Alfa) with Mitsubishi.

Renault/Nissan already have well-established EV technology, Mitsubishi have the plug-in hybrid tech. They've also all maintained seperate dealer facilities so there's little danger of FCAs recent efforts to combine their brands under one dealership roof being damaged.

I imagine the only danger being some FCA models having their decent engines replaced by Renault-Nissan tech - having owned FCA vehicles and Renaults & Nissans I'd say FCA engines are far superior in terms of driving and robustness. The other fly in the ointment would be getting Nissan to agree, as the article mentions. It also might lead to factory closures i imagine and since Mercedes share engines and more with Renault, I assume they might want a say, depending on how their relationship with Renault is structured.
 

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I fully appreciate the need for businesses to remain viable and competitive, but I do think the individual design and style of cars will be lost. Already, I struggle to discern whether the car in front is a Nissan, Honda, Merc, Hyundai etc. They all blur into one enormous homogeneous blob......because they are multi/group owned

Yes, design houses such as Pininfarina are responsible for many models across many marques - but I feel you could always tell a Ford from a Vauxhall from a Morris, back in the’60s and ‘70s etc.

Now, a Fiat Spider is a Mazda clone etc etc. Maybe it doesn’t make financial long-term sense to stand alone in car production. My daily is a Lancia Thesis - a car designed as a ground-up one-off, which did not share the platform with any other car (no, not the 166 - that was the Kappa). That did not end well and was the financial death-knell for Lancia...

But will we just end up with two or three major, multi-brand marques - all producing near-identical looking blancmanges? Not too dissimilar from the high street, with the supermarkets being multi-brand owned and the consumer left with less and less choice?

Just my possibly erroneous opinion ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Peugeot shares down as they were thought to be aiming to merge with FCA. Vauxhall will become uneconomic sooner?
 

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That alliance would be a shame. Depending on how much influence Reeeennnnult had I'd steer clear of FCA.
 
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If you think about it they have complementary ranges of cars. Renault have cheap (Dacia) and cheerful (Renault), FCA have Fiat which is more boutique now, premium brands (Alfa, Maserati), and Jeep.

The biggest issue will be in the commercial space with IVECO and Renault.

I see this as working.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
With Renault losing their Smart/ Twingo economies of business because of the Mercedes sale to the Chinese there could be synergies for lower price “mobility solutions” or cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Proposal from FCA
“FCA SUBMITS PROPOSAL FOR A TRANSFORMATIVE MERGER WITH GROUPE RENAULT TO CREATE PREEMINENT GLOBAL AUTOMOTIVE GROUP
 Combined business to be 50% owned by FCA shareholders and 50% by Groupe Renault shareholders – balanced governance structure and majority of Board of Directors being independent
 Combination would create the 3rd largest global OEM with 8.7m vehicle sales and a strong market presence in key regions and vehicle segments
 Broad and complementary brand portfolio would provide full market coverage, from luxury to mainstream
 Combined company would be a world leader in the rapidly changing automotive industry with a strong position in transforming technologies, including electrification and autonomous driving
 No plant closures as a result of the combination
 In excess of €5 billion estimated annual run rate synergies incremental to
existing Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance (Alliance) synergies
 Strong combined balance sheet allowing for flexible capital allocation and robust dividend policy”
 

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2017 Guila 2.0 Tbi Lusso spec, 1972 S2 Spider Junior, wife drives 939 Spider, + Abarth 595
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I imagine the only danger being some FCA models having their decent engines replaced by Renault-Nissan tech
Or Renault getting Fiat/Alfa engines?

I dont think the partnership is such a bad idea. Renault has a history a long as Alfa Romeo, it has pedigree with spinoff sporty cars like Alpine and Gordini.

The alliance would be better than with VAG who would definitely swallow up Alfa, its better than a Chinese or Korean alliance and within the current Renualt/Nissan/Mitibushi partnership each have kept their own identity.
 

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Another possible advantage is the possible range of engines. Look what's happened to the Giulietta. 1750 gone, multi-air gone, the only petrol engines are 120bhp. My 150MA is a detuned 170 because I wanted a real gearbox. This is because the average emissions across the brand (FCA) were too high. Linking up with with someone creating lower emissions (hopefully include Nissan with their Leaf) could mean we might get some proper engines back, or at least won't end up driving around in 70bhp vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I had a 170 and then a 150 and I can tell you the “detuned” MA was much better to drive despite the on-paper deficiency. And then that wasn’t clean enough..
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The real issue with Renault, and PSA for that matter, is that they have very good purchase people and the results are cars that don’t last. Not even as long lasting as Fiat cars. A neighbour in the trade says if you insist on buy them you should get rid before the warranty runs out.
 

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I think it could be the death knell for Alfa, at least as an independent brand - Ferrari and Maserati are safe as premiums, but the Stelvio would be dead as soon as the merger completed, I can't see much future for the Giulia in a rationalized product range, and there won't be any room for a more sporty two-seater in the future since it'd be competing with the recently reborn Alpine.

Here's hoping Alfa gets sold off to a more sympathetic owner (or gets a reworked Alpine) rather than being reduced, along with Lancia, to being a badge on a slightly-tweaked Twingo.
 
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