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This makes me laugh:

"The Alfa Romeo Giulia and Stelvio were designed to compete with the likes of BMW and Mercedes, but there’s no denying they are a little rough around the edges when it comes to quality, especially perceived quality."

A word that rhymes with rowlocks. These people have had their head far to far up their own rectum in the BMW show rooms for far to long.
 

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This makes me laugh:

"The Alfa Romeo Giulia and Stelvio were designed to compete with the likes of BMW and Mercedes, but there’s no denying they are a little rough around the edges when it comes to quality, especially perceived quality."

A word that rhymes with rowlocks. These people have had their head far to far up their own rectum in the BMW show rooms for far to long.
I think the 'perceived quality' is the important bit in that sentence, at least as far as Mercedes is concerned - in the early 90s they got GM consultants in to help them cut manufacturing costs to the bone - their older 'over engineered' models were so expensive to produce they were barely making any money and looking financially rather shaky.

GM 'helped' Mercedes to cut manufacturing costs dramatically and at the same time made the late 90's Mercedes about as solidly built as a Vauxhall Corsa :lol:

Things have improved a bit since then, but if you take the sumptuous looking door card off a more modern merc you'll be shocked at how cheap and nasty everything is, and their smaller models are more Renault than Mercedes mechanically...
 

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Not sure about that @hector56 but I hear it will have retractable cloverleaf badging and 2 disappearing exhaust tips. Hopefully that should sneak it past the missus ;) (sorry could not resist) :)
 

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I think the 'perceived quality' is the important bit in that sentence, at least as far as Mercedes is concerned - in the early 90s they got GM consultants in to help them cut manufacturing costs to the bone - their older 'over engineered' models were so expensive to produce they were barely making any money and looking financially rather shaky.

GM 'helped' Mercedes to cut manufacturing costs dramatically and at the same time made the late 90's Mercedes about as solidly built as a Vauxhall Corsa :lol:

Things have improved a bit since then, but if you take the sumptuous looking door card off a more modern merc you'll be shocked at how cheap and nasty everything is, and their smaller models are more Renault than Mercedes mechanically...
I had a point in my life when people started to say Mercedes cars were made to a price rather than a quality. Most global brands that want to remain affordable will have hit this point but I do think Mercedes may have been a tad behind and that's why they remained so successful until now?
 

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I had a point in my life when people started to say Mercedes cars were made to a price rather than a quality. Most global brands that want to remain affordable will have hit this point but I do think Mercedes may have been a tad behind and that's why they remained so successful until now?
Mercedes have the perceived quality down to a tee, they have that 'hewn from granite' reputation from their eariler, over-engineered, more stodgy models, and they do have some fast, flashy 'halo' models to capture buyers' imagination so they do seem very nice indeed if you're the 1st or 2nd owner. But by the time the car's 8+ years old it's pretty much had it, and that's reflected in the 2nd hand price of a lot of older Mercs.

So really Mercedes are a triumph of marketing over quality; for example they really dodged a bullet with the w210 and w202 - the sort of hideous, dangerous rust problems those two models had were far worse than the issue the Beta had (which was enough to bury Lancia in the UK) but Mercedes emerged from those rust scandals with barely a scratch. And the AMG W211 E55k had some very iffy technology in the brakes and suspension departments, but yet somehow it's still a highly desirable car even though you know one day the expensive, flawed electronics will render the car permanently undriveable unless you rip the loom out and start from scratch with the simpler E63 electronics (but I'd still love one despite that :D). And the 1st A class was so narrow and top-heavy it was near-lethal during high-speed cornering, but that's been completely forgotten about. And the ML series... I could go on and on, but it'd get rather boring.

Quick video for those who forgot about the A class:
 

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This makes me laugh:

"The Alfa Romeo Giulia and Stelvio were designed to compete with the likes of BMW and Mercedes, but there’s no denying they are a little rough around the edges when it comes to quality, especially perceived quality."
Amazingly poor journalism there. Is it lost on the journo that the only one perpetrating the "perceived quality" is the media?
It could have just said "a little rough around the edges" but as above the 2nd part of the sentence is just a load of incomprehensible bulls**t.
 

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Amazingly poor journalism there. Is it lost on the journo that the only one perpetrating the "perceived quality" is the media?
It could have just said "a little rough around the edges" but as above the 2nd part of the sentence is just a load of incomprehensible bulls**t.
I'm guessing that 'perceived quality' might also mean things like having soft-shut doors (even if it's only done with a bit of cheap foam), plush, soft-touch interior plastics (even if it's only done with that horrible spray-on stuff that goes gunky after a few years), relaxing, supportive seats (even if the materials they are made from are so thin they wear through within 50k), etc, etc. So the reviewer may be talking cobblers, or may be acknowledging a car's apparent quality may not be what it seems...
 

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I would say that "lower quality, especially perceived quality" is a polite way of saying that Giulia's and Stelvio's interior is prone to rattling and creeking. Stelvio might be even worse, due to having stiffer suspension setup.
I have watched many reviews where journalists complained about the rattles in Stelvio.

I can only say that rattles and creeks are one of the major complaints I have about Giulia - when I was driving it new from the dealer there were already creeks in the cabin. Now at 70k km there are still rattles present even after I used felt tape excessively on many places around the interior - some with the help from the dealer and and some by myself - yes I had to learn how to dismantle most of the interior in Giulia when trying to fix rattles and creeks.
This is unacceptable for a car that had a MSRP of 60.000€.

Most people would probably not notice them, but I am very rattle/creek sensitive, so I go an extra mile to fix them - however they are still there and it sucks! :)
 

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I would say that "lower quality, especially perceived quality" is a polite way of saying that Giulia's and Stelvio's interior is prone to rattling and creeking. Stelvio might be even worse, due to having stiffer suspension setup.
I have watched many reviews where journalists complained about the rattles in Stelvio.

I can only say that rattles and creeks are one of the major complaints I have about Giulia - when I was driving it new from the dealer there were already creeks in the cabin. Now at 70k km there are still rattles present even after I used felt tape excessively on many places around the interior - some with the help from the dealer and and some by myself - yes I had to learn how to dismantle most of the interior in Giulia when trying to fix rattles and creeks.
This is unacceptable for a car that had a MSRP of 60.000€.

Most people would probably not notice them, but I am very rattle/creek sensitive, so I go an extra mile to fix them - however they are still there and it sucks! :)
Ah, that sounds like another sensible definition of 'perceived quality' :)
 

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No rattles in my Stelvio. And VW has started using the dreaded hard plastic a year or two back. The Troc has it and whilst it’s mentioned it does get away with it. The main reason for using slush mouldings is that you can fit bezels for vents and switches with zero shut gaps.
 

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No rattles in my Stelvio. And VW has started using the dreaded hard plastic a year or two back. The Troc has it and whilst it’s mentioned it does get away with it. The main reason for using slush mouldings is that you can fit bezels for vents and switches with zero shut gaps.
Yes, what rattles?????
 

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Amazingly poor journalism there. Is it lost on the journo that the only one perpetrating the "perceived quality" is the media?
It could have just said "a little rough around the edges" but as above the 2nd part of the sentence is just a load of incomprehensible bulls**t.
Suspect thats a bit of 'poor quality' plastic in the seat base or something and anyone who criticises a car for the gear selector is a moron. When it gets to a stage when the soft furnishings are the benchmark for whether a car is good or not the journos must be a bunch of snowflakes.
 

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Yes, what rattles?????
Maybe it’s from the additional trim on the Stelvio to match the dash and console inserts?
There’s an insert in the doorbin to prevent rattles from its contents on the Stelvio and I assume on the Giulia too?
 

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My 2017 Giulia Quadrifoglio has zero rattles or creaks. I'm actually very impressed how silent it is. In fact, I wish it would let more exhaust noise into the cabin so I can enjoy it more.
 

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From the Irish facebook Alfa Romeo group tonight.

Update.....Mike Manley has now scrapped the Giorgio platform saying it didn't live up to the expectation with Giulia and Stelvio. How does the best NEW chassis around affect the final results of sales? This has been met with total incredulity from within. Mike Manley was against the Giorgio platform when Marchionne did it. Is this his revenge?
 

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Suspect thats a bit of 'poor quality' plastic in the seat base or something and anyone who criticises a car for the gear selector is a moron. When it gets to a stage when the soft furnishings are the benchmark for whether a car is good or not the journos must be a bunch of snowflakes.
Maybe the current bunch of 'cooking' SUVs are all so similar that's the only way to differentiate between them, or maybe the journalists are so bored / clueless they can't think of anything else interesting to say. Much like the cup-holder wars in the early 90s, where the presence or lack of those stupid bits of plastic were used to decide if a car was good or not, regardless of the styling / power / longevity. Yes, maybe a Nissan Primera did have more cup holders than a twinturbo RX7, but if that's the only difference a potential buyer can notice, maybe they should be looking to spend their cash on a good care home rather than a new car.
 

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From the Irish facebook Alfa Romeo group tonight.

Update.....Mike Manley has now scrapped the Giorgio platform saying it didn't live up to the expectation with Giulia and Stelvio. How does the best NEW chassis around affect the final results of sales? This has been met with total incredulity from within. Mike Manley was against the Giorgio platform when Marchionne did it. Is this his revenge?
I think we would need a link to the Manley official statement on that.
 
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