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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
Sorry just seen this can you have a look at your pipes and see which version you have - depending on where the pipe branches from return line - you have L shaped and T shaped connectors - you will have both but you need to check how many of each.
Thanks Paul. I have scheduled appointment at the garage on Tuesday. My mechanic will explore ignition problem and engine vibrations. I will definitely ask him to follow your advice and check your and "Loughnn" tips. We will check return line and L and T shape. Car parts market is Serbia is very limited, since we have two or three big wholesalers who are supplying most of the parts shops. They usual import regular things like brakes, filters etc. More specific things are not easy to find. There are basically three options: 1) used parts (which is always a gamble), 2) OEM Alfa Romeo parts (extremely expensive here due to tax and custom duties) or 3) import from Germany or UK (customs and shipping are doubling any price). Thanks for the link. Much appreciated.
 

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Alternatively you could replace all the tiny O rings on each connector and the pipe itself - the pipe is diesel return pipe used across all brands-I think the inner diameter is 3.2mm but worth double checking.
Some people have tested this fault by inserting a section of transparent hose in the fuel return line so as to be able to see the fuel drain after sitting overnight.
I don’t think the leaks in the pipe are always obvious.
There is a lot of information on the Vauxhall forum that uses the same Fiat engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Alternatively you could replace all the tiny O rings on each connector and the pipe itself - the pipe is diesel return pipe used across all brands-I think the inner diameter is 3.2mm but worth double checking.
Some people have tested this fault by inserting a section of transparent hose in the fuel return line so as to be able to see the fuel drain after sitting overnight.
I don’t think the leaks in the pipe are always obvious.
There is a lot of information on the Vauxhall forum that uses the same Fiat engine.
That is a good tip. Thanks. Yes, Vauxhall - Opel, Saab, Fiat, Alfa Romeo used the same 1.9 jtdm engine. I am not the big fan. I owned two Alfa 166 with 2.4 jtd engines (150hp and 185hp) and Lancia Lybra with the same engine. These are bullet proof engines, great performers with an excellent sound! Very reliable engines. I also have good experience with 2.0 turbo petrol engine (Lancia Thesis). Engine was good, but the rest of Lancia Thesis was horrible. The most unreliable car I ever owned. Comparing with that Alfa 159 is supper reliable and simple to work on.
 

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Yeah the part would also be available in a Fiat/Vauxhall/Opel parts supplier.
I think it’s very simple less than an hours work to replace.
I think it would ok to replace O rings and rubber pipe as I think mostly the fittings on the pipe are metal in the version the 159 uses-seemed that vauxhall/Opel used plastic (though imagine they are interchangeable)
Always liked the 166 but never owned one - did have a 156 with a Twin Spark petrol - liked the engine but wasn’t a huge fan of the car-also had a Giulietta and currently have a 159 jtdm saloon and a Mito turbo petrol which is fun-but looking to swap the saloon to either a 3.2 or 1750 tbi sportwagon.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Good choices. 1750 tbi is an excellent engine, but very thirsty. I remember a friend of mine had Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 petrol and it was extremely fast. Fuel consumption was crazy. I have always wanted to own 2008-13 Maserati Quattroporte with ZF transmission. Utterly beautiful, should not be too expensive in UK (not sure about the tax), but hard to find a good one.
 

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Hello Alfisti,

I have been trying to resolve the problem of strong engine shake. The problem is mostly noticed during a cold start. The situation is a little better when the engine is warmed up. Otherwise, the engine has no other problems (for now). Excellent traction, no other problematic vibrations, does not turn off in idle or while driving, fuel consumption is about 9-10 l/100km in the city. The car has 198,000 km (imported from Italy). Much has been done to address this and other failures:

- intake manifold was cleaned,

- swirl flaps at the intake manifold were removed - the holes filled with plugs,

- EGR valve was cleaned,

- two engine mounts were replaced (50502603 and 50502602),

- new flywheel and clutch set were installed,

- bendix on starter replaced,

- 4 engine glow plugs were replaced,

- timing belt, water pump and thermostat (serpentine belt and tensioners were not replaced since they are ok)

- two fuel injectors were cleaned and tuned,(one had a large deviation of about 2.5 - 3 and the other about 1 - diagnostic used Fiat EcuScan),

- new battery was installed 5 months ago.

The problem occurs in winter and now at this time of late spring. The car arrived from Italy with this problem, and I was not been able to resolved the problem until today. Diagnostics does not report any errors.

I guess there has been a lot to say about this topic already. I would be grateful if someone has a similar experience, because my car mechanic ran out of ideas. I wouldn't even pay attention because there is no problem in driving, but the engine just shakes like crazy when starting and there is certainly something wrong.



Greetings,

Aleksandar
Did u replace crankshaft pulley?
 

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Discussion Starter #27
No, did not replace crankshaft pulley. You have an experience that this might be a problem? Yesterday, I went to my mechanic and after doing diagnostic scanning fuel injector number 4 (allegedly fixed first time I visited fuel injector specialist), had some intolerance value approx 1.35 (after 10 - 15 min of driving). He dismissed possible air or fuel leakages as possible cause of the engine vibration problem. He believes that faulty fuel injector is the main cause of the trouble (if the intolerance is so high when engine is hot, it could even worse when it is cold). I left the car with the injectors specialist shop (which did the repair the first time) and now I am waiting for results what they will find.

I am not convinced that fuel injector is the only source of trouble, but most of the independent mechanics do not want to waist their time to do properly explore the source of the problem. It is one or two obvious things they try, after that they quit without finishing the job. My experience with official dealership is more of less the same (both is Serbia, where I currently live, or in U.S. where I lived for many years).

I will report the results.
 

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What did the mechanic mean by intolerance?
The ECU adjusts the injector pulses- if using diagnostics this shows as continually varying positive and negative values across the 4 injectors.
The ECU does this to try and achieve the smoothest possible operation-I thought the injectors had been serviced in the initial post and the problem was with cold start which is why I thought you had a fuel leak back problem-which can lead to rough start/long initial cranking.
If when the engine is running and it if feels like it’s intermittently running on 3 cylinders -with bouncing idle rpm and lack of power -there is another very common problem with the wiring loom plug that connects to injector 3.
I had this problem and had initially thought it was injectors themselves.
For whatever reason (Heat I think) the plastic plug loosens -losing the electrical connection on number 3.
This again is very common on the vauxhall forum and a repair kit has been produced with a new design of plug.
Whilst the engine is idling rough just press on the connector (no3)and listen for a change in rpm.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
Yes, the injectors were serviced in fuel injectors specialized shop, but only cleaned and tuned.

My mechanic used Fiat EcuScan diagnostic tool. It showed minus value of injectors 1 and 2, 0 value of injector number 3 and appx 1.35 positive value of injector number 4. Although he also said that the ecu does try smooth the operation, he believes that the intolerance injector 4 to "normal operation values" is higher that it should have been. He also said that faulty fuel injector might cause the ECU believes it starts with 3 cylinders (you mentioned that in your last post).
I shared with him your experience, but he focused on injector as cause of the problem. I have no problem with idling, while driving or during shot down. Engine runs smooth. I have no problem with no lack of power. Vibrations while starting is the only problem.

I will follow your advice, as soon as I get my car returned from the fuel injector shop.

Than you Paul and others for your feedback. I will continue reporting.
 

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No worries keep us updated -I think for a better view of how the injectors are working is to raise the idle rpm to around 2000 and see if the corrections minimise using the live data on ECU scan.
Let us know how you go.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Here is the latest update. Paul was right. The source of the problem was bad wiring - precisely wiring connecting fuel injectors. The cars starts normal and fuel injectors values are almost perfect. Fuel consumption is around 10l/100km (before it was 11-12l/100km). I really appreciate all the support from Paul777, Loughnn, DopplerE and others. THANKS!

p.s. I did not have time to enjoy much, since my left Xenon headlight broke down while I was returning from fuel injector specialist shop...It happened to me several times with various Alfa's to fix one problem, and totally unrelated problem emerge immediately after. It is a Xenon light D1S ballast which is broken.

Anyhow it is great that we have each other to help with a advice and guidance. Happy to help anyone of you in anyway I can. Cheers!
 

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That’s brilliant you will notice a jump in your fuel economy for the better - thanks for letting us know!
 
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