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I ran a 135 Mito for 15'000 kms last year on E10 didnt see a drop in economy or performance, FGA/ FPT have been working in markets outside Uk for donkeys years in bio fuel/CNG and gpl also probably more so than other European OEM's due to the markets FGA cover Brasil/Turkey/China with GIAC/ India etc, all these countries are further down the alternative fuel route than the UK. E85 is available in Brasil but I think that is real old tech FIRE engines.
 

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Notice that petrol engines generally LIKE ethanol, which as a fuel is actually better than petrol except extremely cold environments (ie. below -30 celsius...). Ethanol has lower weight per volume than typical petrol, so mpg figures will take a hit, but so small hit that no motorist can measure the difference reliably with home methods.

Modern turbocharged engines can exploit the much higher octane rating of ethanol by using more boost withouth pinging if they are programmed to do so. Higher boost means higher effective compression ratio, which also means higher thermodynamic efficiency. All added together the final mpg figures may even improve if the engine can use the advantage.

The only problem in ethanol usage is that fuel system may have some plastic or rubber components that may age faster in contact with alcohol.

Car manufacturers, being the timid dip****s they are, simply wash their hands of responsibility by not giving approval unless they are ABSOLUTELY certain.

The decision is made more on the legal department than on the technical side, by guys who cannot tell a spanner from a spade even if their life depended on it.

Making engine capable to exploit alcohol is no more expensive, it just needs some thought. Different plastic or rubber types used in a few pipes, seals, membranes and o-rings, and slightly different programming of ECU is all that is needs. In a couple of years new petrol cars that cannot use RE85 fuel will be extinct.

Here in Finland we have ALWAYS used ethanol in petrol during the cold months to remove the effects of water condensation in the fuel tank. Ethanol will dissolve water to petrol, and it will not accumulate to the tank. Nobody has ever thought about it causing trouble, and no trouble has been observed either. But now when the ethanol content of the 95 oct. was raised from previous 5% to 10% some "experts" started preaching doom and gloom, and lo and behold all sorts of problems emerged, such is the power of suggestion...
 

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Found this from auto express ( dated end of last year ) that implies super unleaded fuels will still be availlble at E5 at leasdt from some suppliers. If that is really true it is not quite so bad for low milage drivers like myself.

...........At least one million motorists could be forced to buy premium fuel from next year – paying an average 8p per litre more at the pumps – as the Government prepares to increase biofuel content in regular unleaded.


Petrol currently contains up to five per cent ethanol, which most cars can safely use. But this is likely to be replaced next year by an E10 version with ten per cent ethanol – a blend the Department for Transport (DfT) says is not suitable for most pre-1993 cars, plus many newer models, too.


A DfT statement said the use of E10 shouldn’t affect the operation of modern cars “with the exception of direct-injection vehicles”. However, it added: “Older, carburetted cars are unlikely to be compatible with ethanol in excess of five per cent.”


Limited space on filling station forecourts is being blamed for the removal of standard unleaded petrol, which would be forced out if the new eco-friendly fuel gets the Government green light.


BP and Tesco have already confirmed to Auto Express that affected owners would be restricted to super unleaded on their forecourts.


A Tesco spokesman told us: “Our premium unleaded, Momentum 99, would then be our E5 fuel.” The AA warned that the introduction of E10, which is being driven by an EU directive, will hit cash-strapped motorists hardest. It advised owners to check their car’s E10 compatibility with the manufacturer.


DfT figures show there were more than 700,000 vehicles on the road last year with 1993 or older registration marks.


Read more: Biofuel shake-up will affect thousands | news | Auto Express .......
 

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I mailed shell UK on future E5 petrol availability and the introduction of E10 they answered pretty quickly with the following:-

Thank you for your email. I can confirm that Petrol is blended with up to 5% ethanol in orderto respond to the European Union and UK government’s initiative topromote biofuels, whose aim is to reduce CO2 emissions and enhanceenergy supply security. At Shell, we are passionate about fuel, andour dedicated fuel scientists work continuously in the lab to bringyou the most advanced and effective fuels. Both Shell FuelSave Regular Unleaded and Shell V-Power Unleadedcontain up to 5% ethanol as stipulated by the European fuelspecification EN228 and UK government legislation. At Shell, we arepassionate about fuel, and our dedicated fuel scientists workcontinuously in the lab to bring you the most advanced and effectivefuels. All Shell petrol contains up to 5% ethanol as stipulated by theEuropean fuel specification EN228 and UK government legislation.Virtually all outlets sell petrol with ethanol. Shell currently has no plans to increase ethanol content in petrolbeyond 5% in the UK. For the latest information on biofuellegislation in the UK, please consult the Department for Transport’swebsite.Department for Transport - Department for Transport Most vehicles manufactured after 1991 are suitable for petrol with 5%ethanol. For vehicles older than this or for those that have anyspecific design features or modifications, we strongly recommend thatcustomers consult their vehicle manufacturer to determine whethertheir vehicle is compatible with ethanol-containing fuels beforefilling up. Once again, thank you for contacting Shell UK. We do hope you havefound this information useful.
 

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That's good news as my cars and bike are run on Shell. Also I only use V Power in the Brera so if they do alter their Regular (FuelSave) Unleaded, it won't have any effect on me.

I reckon my motorbike will be fine as it's a 2011 and I don't think it's direct injection (Triumph Daytona 675). Family car is a Kuga diesel which we alternate regular diesel and Vpower diesel in.

Interestingly, the Kuga diesel seems to get 3-5 more MPG on tanks of Vpower Diesel, but I need to run more tanks of each to prove this.
 

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E10 standard in Canada

We have E10 in Canada and our "Super" is only 91 Octane!! I use unleaded "Octane Buster" at fillup. (our gas prices are relatively cheap vs EU.) Right now I pay $1.40Can per liter Super and $1.25/L reg unleaded E10. If I get poor performance, I will get Airplane Fuel with about 105-110 octane and mix it with "Super".
We have a small regional airport where I can get 20 liter gas cans filled.....;) :thumbs:
 

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Guys, take it easy!! I have been using E25-E30 ( yes, 25-30% ethanol) in my cf2 Alfa 156 here in Brazil for almost 12 years, with no problems! My Alfa has now 191.000Km and no engine problems....in fact I take her regulary at trackdays and the engne is still strong....strong enough to embarass some BMWs...

Black BMW 130i and Mini JCW - Alfa 156 @ V Track Day NDA Racing Fazenda Capuava 15-12-2012 - YouTube

Here in Brazil we have no 100% pure petrol....so all cars here runs on E25-E30 - BMWs, Ferraris, the lot, and we have no particular problems with the engines! Even direct injection engines have no problem with gasohol....so no doomsday!
 

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Sounds good...

BUT... what OCTANE rating does the fuel have? The only problem would be that you have to switch out the ALL the rubber seals and lines to neoprene?? to avoid the deterioration.
Q: are there any 100% ethanol vehicles in Brasil??

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Guys, take it easy!! I have been using E25-E30 ( yes, 25-30% ethanol) in my cf2 Alfa 156 here in Brazil for almost 12 years, with no problems! My Alfa has now 191.000Km and no engine problems....in fact I take her regularly at trackdays and the engine is still strong....strong enough to embarrass some BMWs...

Black BMW 130i and Mini JCW - Alfa 156 @ V Track Day NDA Racing Fazenda Capuava 15-12-2012 - YouTube

Here in Brazil we have no 100% pure petrol....so all cars here runs on E25-E30 - BMWs, Ferraris, the lot, and we have no particular problems with the engines! Even direct injection engines have no problem with gasohol....so no doomsday!
********************************
 

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Brazilian Alfas have no special mechanical parts... The only differences here are the absence of the sportpack suspension and a really crappy locally developed engine map... I have checked the engine parts and all hoses, injectors, fuel pump are the same as EU ones...
I nowadays use only high-octane fuel, a 102 RON called Petrobras Podium.... And I now use a European map from Squadra Tuning with no issues...
 

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I wouldn't panic just yet.

Remember when lead petrol went out, there was lead replacement fuel available for many years after. It was never the doomsday for older cars that was expected. There is a garage in my area that does a variety of strange fuels including lead replacement, biodiesel and the red products.

I ran a Rover 75 diesel with the BMW lump and bio-diesel was said to be a complete no no. I ran it for 3 years without a problem on bio enjoying the 30p a litre less.
 

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Brazilian Alfas have no special mechanical parts... The only differences here are the absence of the sportpack suspension and a really crappy locally developed engine map... I have checked the engine parts and all hoses, injectors, fuel pump are the same as EU ones...
I nowadays use only high-octane fuel, a 102 RON called Petrobras Podium.... And I now use a European map from Squadra Tuning with no issues...
I've been using E20 for more than a year with no observable problems. Fuel economy and power is not changed. It is much cheaper though. With E85, I worry only about the fuel lines and any rubber parts that were designed long ago.

My google search on the subject returns only "conversion kits" which seem to be a hoax or a 600$ expense only to help cold starts (not applicable to Thailand). I'm also seeing american websites with useless information so obviously I turn to you alfaowners...

I think addressing the corrosion issue is the only thing to do. As they corrode, I worry the rubber bits gets into the fuel and wear the engine. (Wild speculation, as there is so little information. This is literally a topic for saving governments and motorists trillions of dollars and we have no information whatsoever? Conspiracy? The public in US and UK is terrified of ethanol and nothing is done to inform them.)

New volvos openly support E85 though, japanese cars run on ridiculously low octane so I don't expect any effort from them to adapt their cheap components.

Fuel lines, gaskets, tank? Which should be changed? Where to buy?

If I can't convert to E85, I will need to consider LPG. Please help this could be big business for our garage.
 

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We have E10 in Canada and our "Super" is only 91 Octane!! I use unleaded "Octane Buster" at fillup.
That is probably 91 PON, so about equivalent (*) to 96 RON fuel. Europe uses the RON rating for fuel.

All the best

Keith

(*) 2 main rating systems are the MON and RON measures. As a rule of thumb the RON figure is 10 points higher than the MON figure for the same fuel, although the actual difference is the sensitivity and that does vary with fuels. The USA uses the PON rating, which is the average of the RON and MON figures.
 

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Has the Biofuel timebomb exploded and I didn't notice? It's well over a year since the original "scare" - wh'appen then?

Should this be unstuck?

Are there other threats that we should know more about?
 

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